1st Lothians & Border Yeomanry

Ok Kevin I will do my best.
Some of the photos I have do have place names and dates and peoples first names. So I will try to add as much detail as possible.
Should be a good few more to come as and when I get time to scan them off.
Regards
Jim

 

I take it you haven't seen the 1944 diary Kevin? The first 3 or 4 months have a append listing all the vehicles taken on strength by T census etc numbers and one lists engines numbers of those changed. The March or April diary lists all the vehicles in the regiment with the vehicle names and what Sqn etc they belong to.

 

Hello All!

My father, Trooper F W Bagley, 7893216, was wireless operator/Loader (?) in tank TOLBOOTH in no.1 Troop, B sqn. He landed in France 12 July 44 and was there till March 46.

Would be very interested if anyone knows anything about the tank or troop - from what he told me he seems to have avoided most of the action!

I have a few photos that may be of interest
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28225]
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28224]
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28223]

 

Great pics and thanks for sharing them !

 

Hi Drew,

No I haven't seen that section of the WD. Michel sent me the name listing but I only have a few census numbers that I have picked up from various photos and numbers that have been sent to me. Any chance you have a copy of this?

Cheers

Kevin

 

Thanks for the great photos. On 11 Sep 44 TOLBOOTH was commanded by Cpl Rackham. The other tanks initially in 1 Tp (Troop Leader Lt PB Carter) were COWGATE, CANONGATE, ST. GILES and HOLYROOD . Tpr Bagley is mentioned once in the War Diary for 1944, as being attached from B Sqn to Tac RHQ 1 (Movement Order Nct/1) wef 28 Oct 44. This was for Operation Infatuate II (Westkapelle landings).

Could you get a higher resolution scan of your second photo so that the T-number of tank could be read (on the flail arm)? It looks something like T148562 but a higher res scan should make it clear.
On the 3rd photo the tank name might also be better legible (on the flail arm between the two groups of two). I guess it's 'Tolbooth II' (or even mlaybe 'Tolbooth III'), which would explain why no turret number is visible (replacement tank with no turret number given), whereas the original TOLBOOTH most probably had a turret number between 45 and 49.

By the way, W/Op was indeed the gun loader in a Sherman, as well as the Wireless Operator. He was also usually referred to as G/Op (Gunner Operator), while the 'Gunner' proper or 'Gunlayer' was the G/M (Gunner Mechanic).

Michel

 

Hi Guys
A few more bits plus I have rescanned the Scout car.
Regards Jim

 

Deleted because of double posting

 

Hi Drew,

No I haven't seen that section of the WD. Michel sent me the name listing but I only have a few census numbers that I have picked up from various photos and numbers that have been sent to me. Any chance you have a copy of this?

Cheers

Kevin
Give me a few days (I'm on nights at the mo) and if I've not posted them send me a PM as a reminder.

 

Michel

Thank you very much for that info. My father certainly never mentioned being involved in the Westkapelle landings.

I'll try scan the photos again but they are rather small and blurry. I'm amazed you spotted the name on the flail arm - I never had. It's almost certainly TOLBOOTH II as I remember my father painting TOLBOOTH III on the side of his garden wheelbarrow !!

A couple more photos of the Lothians ....


[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28229]
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28228]
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28227]
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28226]

 

Hi Drew,

No I haven't seen that section of the WD. Michel sent me the name listing but I only have a few census numbers that I have picked up from various photos and numbers that have been sent to me. Any chance you have a copy of this?

Cheers

Kevin


Drop me a PM if you'd like any more.

 

Hi Drew,No I haven't seen that section of the WD. Michel sent me the name listing but I only have a few census numbers that I have picked up from various photos and numbers that have been sent to me. Any chance you have a copy of this?CheersKevin Drop me a PM if you'd like any more.

Hi Drew,

This is ideal! Thanks for posting them.

Cheers

Kevin

 

Hi,

I don't suppose there is any evidence that they were later issued with more 3-ton 4x4 lorries? I'm surprised to see so many 4x2's in a front-line armour unit.

Cheers

Tom

 

Hi Just a few more pictures from my fathers collection

 

Great photos James. Photo 4 looks like an old Bedford QL 6pdr portee.

Cheers

Kevin

 

Kevin,

It looks like an Austin K5 ex-portee to me, but that might be my K5 obsession taking over!

Cheers

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

Sorry my mistake you are right. At least I got the ex portee bit right.

Cheers

Kevin

 

Great photos! I've added the last image you posted in the gallery but did not include in this thread:



Which one is your father? We can see the beginning of the name 'Tolbooth II' in Gothic script. If it had been 'TOLBOOTH' (the first one), it would have been written in the 'official' script initially used for writing all vehicle names of 1 Lothians. Moreover, decades of studying WWII military vehicles while postponing garden chores allow me to risk the opinion that the vehicle is almost certainly not a garden wheelbarrow (but might be a lawnmower?), so it should not be 'Tolbooth III' either... For replacement tanks a number of scripts were used, possibly because the initial painter was no longer available... Same goes for the style of the turret number, that is, when they were painted on replacement tanks at all.

Here are a few examples of the 'official' 1 Lothians script:

Superb photo of 'MOUNTAIN BULL' (C Sqn ARV) found by Kevin Tucker:
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/43106-sherman-arv-i-a-canadian-scottish-link/?p=512161

'CASTLE DANGEROUS' (SHQ C Sqn) - British Pathé Film 1125.16 Still 122:
http://images.britishpathe.com/?id=39185&num=122&size=still

'MELLERSTAIN' (4 Tp B Sqn) - IWM B7538:

THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE NORMANDY CAMPAIGN 1944. © IWM (B 7538)IWM Non Commercial Licence

Maybe the Gothic script is an indication that 'Tolbooth II' was received when the regiment was already in Germany .

Michel

 

Michel,

Certainly not a wheelbarrow I'd like to push!

My father is on the right. Sorry I've no further details about date or anything. From looking at the War diary I think the first Tolbooth may have been written off in 1 Tp/B Sqn action on 30 July 1944 near Sept Vents where it was the second tank attempting to flail a lane. The diary says it was damaged by three mines exploded by one detonator. and goes on to describe the effect;

"Immediate effects of the explosion: tk appeared to leave the ground; strong blast in the
tk; ammo thrown from racks; wireless set put out of action; co-dvr's hatch blown open; the
dvr reported that he was injured (he was later found to be suffering from what appeared to be
a broken right foot and severe shock). Damage to tk: floor under dvr's seat blown in; left
hand steering unit locked; locked in gear; final drive and differential housing distorted and
leaking; right hand chain guard blown off; two bogey wheels blown in; jib twisted and badly
holed; bench box plates and prop (device) guard blown off; bolts securing gearbox sheared.
In whole operation this tk had three chains broken and twelve twisted so as to be
unserviceable."

The Driver was Tpr W "Bill" Buck who was my dad's mate and I'm almost certain was in the same tank. Although there's no mention of it being struck off I can't imagine being repaired.

John

 

Here's my ID of the three command tanks THANE OF CAWDOR, WOLF OF BADENOCH and COCK O'THE NORTH in A Sqn:

THANE OF CAWDOR is neither No.10 nor No.11:



Therefore WOLF OF BADENOCH and COCK O'THE NORTH are No.10 & No.11, and we know that COCK O'THE NORTH (LTIN & Lane code name '6 CHERRY' at Westkapelle) is not No.10 ('5 BRAMBLE' at Westkapelle). Therefore No.11 is COCK O'THE NORTH T147976, as confirmed by this comparison:


and thus No.10 is WOLF OF BADENOCH T148028?, also compatible with the following photos:



I would further say that the tank on the left above is therefore probably WOLF OF BADENOCH II, a replacement after the first tank was "abandoned to the looting of the local populace" in Westkapelle together with COCK O'THE NORTH.

Finally, THANE OF CAWDOR is probably No.9, possibly but much less likely No.12. It's a pity the scan is so pixellised, as the name, turret number and T-number should be legible on the original print.

Michel