1st Canadian Infantry Brigade in 1940

Hello,

The 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade was part of the 2nd BEF. And wondered what kind of equipment would have been used by the 1st CIB.
I already search t the web but I can't find any information on the subject. Did the Canadians us the same equipment as the British 52nd lowland Infantry Division?
Or did the us Canadian vehicles and webbing?

Regards Koen

 

Hello,
The canadians used largely the same equipment used by the brittish. Some of it produced in canada.

They used the brodie helmet designs of the 1ww
The brodie design was mostly used in the early day's as it was stock left over from the 1ww.

Gr Stefan

 

Of course the uniform's were canadian.
Here's some interesting books for you.

Michael A. Dorosh, Canuck Battledress, Weapons and Equipment – Clothing and Equipping the Canadian Soldier 1939-1945 (Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Publishing Co., Inc., 1995)

Roger V. Lucy, Tin Lids – Canadian Combat Helmets, UpClose 2 (Ottawa: Service Publications, 1997)

 

Hi Stefan-I think you are about four years too late. Koen researches the 'real' fighting of WW2 that took place in 1940.

 

Ohh ok I've must have been reading with my eyes closed.
Sorry for that.

Well the books and the helmet part can stay then.

And here is something i have about the build up in the early years.

Build Up of the Armored Forces

When Canada entered the war they had a small army and 16 British Light Mk VIs and 12 Carden-Loyd carriers. Since Canada couldn't get any from England (as they needed all theirs in Europe) and the United States could only supply 219 World War I era tanks, Canada decided to produce their own. Most of these purchased tanks were used for training.
When the war started there were only 4 anti-aircraft guns, 5 mortars, 82 Vickers MGs, 10 Bren guns, and 2 light tanks in the Canadian armed forces.2
In September 1939, 54,844 volunteered for the military.2 By the end of 1944 there were approximately 650,000 volunteers.2
In 1940, the commander of the armored corps, Major General Frank Worthington, purchased Renault tanks from the United States as scrap metal so that they could be used for training.1
To help with acquiring armored vehicles, the Montreal Locomotive Works developed the Ram tank in 3 weeks in 1941, which was an amazing feat for the time.1 However, Canada primarily relied on building licensed copies of the Sherman tank to arm their forces.1
Canada started by building Valentines at the Canadian Pacific Railway Company of Montreal for the British. The Canadian Defense Department also placed an order for 488 Valentines to equip the 1st Canadian Armored Brigade. However by the time these were built the Brigade was already in England and all except 30 of the final 1,390 ended up being sent to Russia.
Then it was decided to design and build a tank based on the USA M3 Medium . However, it was going to be designed without the sponson and would carry a 2 pdr and could later be upgraded to a 6 pdr. It was to be called the Ram in honor of the founder of the Canadian armored corps General "Worthy" Worthington. The Ram was part of his family crest.

 

Of course the uniform's were canadian.
Here's some interesting books for you.

Michael A. Dorosh, Canuck Battledress, Weapons and Equipment – Clothing and Equipping the Canadian Soldier 1939-1945 (Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Publishing Co., Inc., 1995)

Roger V. Lucy, Tin Lids – Canadian Combat Helmets, UpClose 2 (Ottawa: Service Publications, 1997)

I've followed up the original book with a more comprehensive look at Canadian Battle Dress entitled DRESSED TO KILL, which is available from Service Publications.

There is a good amount of info at my website at www.canadiansoldiers.com though, and anyone is welcome to post queries at the attached forum.

The Canadians in the 2nd BEF in 1940 saw no action. Part of one brigade landed but were withdrawn again, all after Dunkirk. Six men were left behind in the confusion, as I recall, one was killed, a couple managed to escape through Spain, and the others found their way home via other means.

The official histories of the Canadian Army are available online at Hyper-War, or for free download in pdf form from the Directorate of History and Heritage. There are links from my website under the "Research & Collectors" section.

Canadian uniforms were very similar outwardly to British at this stage of the war, as colourful insignia was banned, including the division patches which were not introduced until 1941. The only real difference you would see in 1940 was the battle dress cloth was a darker, greener shade as all Canadian clothing was produced in Canada of better material.

As far as equipment, the state of equipment was also at this stage hit or miss, and much had to be borrowed from the British. There are a number of Canadian Military Headquarters reports online that discuss the state of equipment and training. Shortages were rife; the 1st Division was receiving priority on all things from vehicles to guns, but not always successfully getting them to the field units overseas that early in the war. The one significant area where Canada differed from the British was in soft-skin vehicles, using the Canadian Military Pattern trucks, and I would imagine off the top of my head that many local vehicles were used in the U.K. as Canadian industry geared up.

If you still require info, feel free to PM me or post follow up questions and I can try to help. I realize I'm necroposting a little bit, but one never knows.

Good luck with your project.

Michael Dorosh
webmaster
canadiansoldiers.com

 

The 52nd (Lowland) Division were not raised until later in the war and first went into action at Walcheren Island in October 1944.

Hi Michael - 52 Div deployed to France as part of the 2nd BEF.

Regards
Andy

 

Hi Michael - 52 Div deployed to France as part of the 2nd BEF.

Regards
Andy

You caught this before I had a chance to edit it. I thought it was unusual that the Canadians would be compared to one specific division. They were retrained as mountain infantry - then never employed in that role, seeing action at Walcheren in the lowest lying terrain in Europe. In 1940, though, they were a standard infantry division.

I guess the answer would be that as far as equipment goes, they were probably equipped the same - as the war progressed, war establishments diverged for many units/formations. Some slightly, some in a major way, but the Canadian W.E.'s seem to have always been patterned after those issued by the British.

Having said that, though, the actual state of equipment in the spring of 1940 may have varied a great deal from the paper establishments.

 

All
the 1st CIB lost 225 new Ford CMP trucks on the docks at Brest when they were ecavuated. However Ham Roberts (more closely affiliated to the Dieppe debacle) managed to rescue the 3 field regiment RCA's new 25 lb guns, a few Bofors AA guns, and a station wagon.
The 1st CID at the time was the only fully equipped division in England...desparate times indeed. As the 52 lowlanders lost all their kit as well.
Matt

 

Owen thats what happens when I post in haste. 1st field aka 1st RCHA
Only, with difficulty were the guns of the R.C.H.A. saved from destruction. It would
appear that General de Fonblanque* and his staff were apprehensive lest attempts to save
equipment might result in the loss of men. Lt.-Col. Roberts went to Garrison
Headquarters and, in the words of his unit's diary, "fought hard for nearly two hours to
save the guns". The order to destroy them was twice given and twice countermanded; and
it is quite probable that they would finally have been destroyed had not the Garrison
Commandant, Colonel W. B. Mackie, been an ex-cadet of the Royal Military College of
Canada. Mackie spoke to de Fonblanque by telephone and obtained his reluctant
acquiescence in embarking the guns. Roberts was told that he could load as many as he
could get aboard by 4 p.m. It was then 2:15. By four he had loaded not only 24 field guns
but in addition a dozen Bofors guns, seven predictors, three Bren carriers and several technical vehicles belonging to other units. The R.C.H.A.'s tractors and ammunition limbers had, however, to be abandoned.
106


taken from C.P. Steacy's "Official history of the Canadian army in the Seccond World War"
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/docs/Sixyrs_e.pdf

Matt

 

Here is the War Diary of the Royal Canadian Regiment of 1st Brigade regarding its time in France 1940:

 

Here are a few more pages on the Royal Canadian Regiment:

 

Here is the War Diary of the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment during their time in France 1940:

 

Here is the Royal Canadian Engineers experience in France 1940 from the RCE history:

 

Here is the Royal Canadian Artillery's experience in France 1940 from the RCA history: