1st Bn The King's Regiment, (Liverpool), Chindits.

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by High Wood, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Andybeg

    Andybeg Member

    Hi Steve
    Very little I'm afraid. He was my mums younger brother born 1915, one of twins. He never married so no kids. I have only one photo of him (in uniform) but unfortunately I don't have a scanner. Needless to say all his generation are long gone ( my mum not long ago aged 98). Determined to find out more about him now if poss.
    I would like to get hold of his service record, am I right in thinking that the only place to get this is through the gov.uk application process and will I get full details if I'm not next of kin?
    Andy
     
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  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Andy,

    Thanks for getting back. Yes, service records through the MOD offices at Glasgow:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

    Who would be next of kin? If he had no children, you must be in with a shout as his sister's son. In my experience, when I have applied for service records of non-related (to me) soldiers, all that is redacted from the records is their personal family information; names, addresses etc. I think that is correct, but I stand to be corrected.

    Steve
     
  3. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    You're "kin" Andy... simple as that... all you need is a death certificate, or order one...

    If you have a modern mobile phone, they take adequate pics, and will relatively easily interface with a PC or laptop... no scanner required...
     
  4. JJM 44

    JJM 44 New Member

    Hi All

    Apologies but I'm extremely new to this so I would greatly appreciate any assistance anyone can give me.

    I'm looking to find further information about my grandfather John Mansfield, at the time a believe he would have lived off Scotland Road, Liverpool and eventually moved to Kirkby.

    I know he served as a Chindits from some of the stories he told me as a child but that's pretty much it!

    My first question is and I am absolutely making a presumption. Due to where he lived would he have therefore been a 1st Battalion, King Regiment? I've excluded the 13th as from what I can gather they were a collection put together in North Wales from various regiments outside of Liverpool.

    I appreciate that a little presumtious but I gave very limited information as you can and got to start somewhere.

    Assuming that is correct, what should be my next step on trying to obtain information?

    Many thanks in advance
    Jason
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Jason and welcome to the forum. I think the best thing you could do, would be to apply for John's Army Service Records, from the MOD offices at Glasgow. It could prevent you from a wild goose chase based on the assumption that he was with one of the King's Battalions.

    Here is a link to their website:

    Veterans UK - GOV.UK

    With a bit of luck forum member High Wood might know more as to whether John appears on any King's related paperwork or sources.

    Best wishes

    Steve
     
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  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Andy, reference your post #50, apologies for delay but regarding your uncle William Foster. The following from the British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945

    Casualty list No 1480 - 23 June 1944
    Missing Burma
    1st Bn. King’s Regiment
    Date of casualty 25/5/1944
    3390699 Bamber Pte R
    3783173 Boon W/Cpl W
    3772943 Fazackerley L/Cpl H
    3777018 Foster Pte W
    3718863 Hough Pte G
    3777090 Roe Pte D
    3779580 Swann Pte CS
    3718679 Sweeny Pte J

    Casualty list No 1583 - 21 October 1944
    1st Bn. King’s Regiment
    Previously reported missing 25/5/1944, now reported wounded and missing
    3777018 Foster Pte W Previous list 1480 Date of casualty 25/4/1944
    Previously reported missing, now reported missing believed killed
    3777090 Roe Pte D Previous list 1480 date of casualty 25/5/1944

    Casualty list No 1997 - 27 February 1946
    1st Bn. King’s Regiment
    Previously reported missing now presumed killed in action
    3780480 Berry W/Sjt J (missing 25/5/44) Previous list 1550/1565
    3770979 Burns Pte WP (missing DNR) Previous list 1552
    5342923 Choules Pte CH (missing 19/5/44) Previous list 1550/1709
    3607352 Dixon Pte S (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    3718771 Higson Pte J (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    3773817 Johnson Pte EA (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    14371286 Jones Pte D (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    3770879 Kilshaw Pte T (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    5782270 Lack Pte AT (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    5126958 Lowe L/Cpl S (missing 21/5/44) Previous list 1550/1892
    5119338 McCann Pte J (missing 25/5/44) Previous list 1487
    14317954 Marshall Pte BAE (missing 25/5/44) Previous list 1557
    3312489 Paterson W/Sjt J (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1550
    3602102 Poole Pte WE (missing 20/5/44) Previous list 1606
    3771094 Sweeney Pte W (missing 25/5/44) Previous list 1487
    Previously reported missing believed killed, now presumed killed in action
    3777090 Roe Pte D Previous list 1583 (missing believed killed 25/5/1944)
    Previously reported wounded and missing 25/5/1944, now presumed died of wounds
    3777018 Foster Pte W Previous list 1583 on or shortly after 23/5/1944

    Note. You will appreciate that these are not all the instances of the King’s Regiment, just those picked up while searching ‘Foster’. There are 3,862 in total.
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Excellent additional information there Tony56. High Wood will be interested in the listing you have attached.
     
  8. JJM 44

    JJM 44 New Member

    Hi steve

    Thank you very much for the advice, I will follow the link and see how I get on.

    Once again thank you for your prompt response.

    Jason
     
  9. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    Seeing those dates, looks like they are from those that fell at Blackpool...
    25th May was the day Blackpool fell and a detachment of 1st KL's were there...
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    William Foster in the UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: William Foster
    Given Initials: W
    Rank: Private
    Death Date: May 1944
    Number: 3777018
    Birth Place: Liverpool
    Residence: Liverpool
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Burma
    Regiment at Death: King's Regiment (Liverpool)
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    TD
     
  11. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Jason, as I interrupted your post here is some information for you, although there is a very large BUT attached.

    British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945

    Casualty List No 1476 Dated 19 June 1944
    Expeditionary Forces – Burma
    Wounded
    2nd Bn. King’s Own Royal Regiment Date of Casualty
    3714709 Burgess Pte RH Date Not Reported
    782169 Fox W/Sjt R DNR
    3714329 McDonald L/Cpl J DNR
    3863089 Mansfield Pte J DNR
    3779082 Taylor Pte T 17/5/44
    3709392 Turner L/Sjt ES DNR

    There is also:

    Casualty List No 855 Dated 20 June 1942
    Expeditionary Forces – Burma
    Wounded
    Royal Artillery
    1060858 Mansfield W.S/W.O.II. J 104 RHA 5/5/42
    (B.S.M.)


    However from RA Attestation records he was ‘Jack’, born Brentwood, Essex c1907.

    The ‘but’ is of course that the chances of this being your John Mansfield is very, very slim and in fact would be quite amazing. The only fact you know is that he was a Chindit. All the rest, regiment and even if he was a casualty at all, is pure speculation. For all I know this J Mansfield could be Joseph, Jeremiah, James etc. but perhaps someone here may have some records?

    As Steve has suggested, get hold of his service records, in the meantime, and just in case it helps, have you a date/place of birth or death, when did he live in Liverpool? Another avenue could be his marriage certificate, if it took place during the war he MIGHT have recorded his regiment and service number as his occupation – my father did.
     
  12. Hello everyone. I've landed here whilst trying to find out about my Dad's journey in the Chindits second campaign in Burma. He was in the 1st Kings Liverpool. I have his service records (my older brother applied on my behalf) but they don't tell me much so I've been investigating! My Dad was Private Matthew Moneypenny, 3776963.

    I realised quickly that reading about the Chindits was not going to be detailed enough so worked my way down to Mike Calvert and his book, Prisoners of Hope which I've just finished. Unfortunately it's not specific enough for me. I've also listened to recordings of Walter (Scottie) Scott online but again, I've realised that it doesn't actually cover my Dad's journey so I was looking for the War Diaries and I found your page! It's been very interesting reading through all the comments.

    I'm hoping that in return for the information on here, I can give you some small details about Dad's time in Burma and India. I have a photo of him with 4 other soldiers on with names on the back which may be of some help, along with one without names but two others on. The second photos shows:
    Back - Williams - Edge Hill
    Hindle - Cubbin Street
    (My Dad - Everton)
    Front - Cookson - (City) Liverpool
    Hummerton - Brownlow Hill

    I also have photos of my Dad alone in Bombay, Malthone (after he came out of hospital) and Deolali. He didn't speak about his time in the army much but he did mention once eating cubes of meat he suspected was donkey... A representative from the Burma Star association saw his obituary and came to his funeral. He told us my Dad and a few others once became lost in the jungle but just kept going until they finally met up with the rest again.

    He also mentions in an airmail letter to my Mum that Hec(tor?) Roe is ok and is in the same platoon as him but his platoon sergeant Jack Neale didn't come out. They had worked together in the shop Costigans in Liverpool before the war.

    I also have the silk map somewhere so I will get that out and photograph it if you like.

    Thank you for the work you are doing to remember these men. I was so glad to find this thread. Columns 81 and 82 don't seem very prominent in the records but I know they were valuable and brave men so I appreciate your efforts to record them.

    Best wishes,
    Lynne Moneypenny
     

    Attached Files:

    High Wood, 4jonboy, bamboo43 and 2 others like this.
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Lynne,
    I enjoyed reading through your post and looking at the photos you've put up. I've been researching the first Chindit expedition, Operation Longcloth for a while and am therefore interested in the Chindits more generally. I had a quick look through the CWGC website and picked up this casualty as probably being the Jack Neale mentioned in your post:

    Casualty Details

    Looking at the soldiers burial details (Sahmaw Cemetery) it is likely that Sgt. Kneale was killed on the outskirts of the 'Broadway' landing ground. Hopefully, Matthew will turn up on one of the nominal rolls in realtion to thge 1st King's and this might give you a clue as to his pathway.
     
  14. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I had a quick look through my files for anyhing about Sgt. Kneale. I picked out two statements in relation to his death on the perimeter around Broadway. His details are mentioned on the second attachment. These are taken from the 1 KLR Missing in Action files held at the National Archives.

    DSC02879.JPG DSC02880.JPG
     
  15. Thank you for your reply Bamboo43. I was concerned I'd written too much in the end!

    I have had a look at Jack's records. How amazing to see them after reading his name in my Dad's letters from so long ago. I have read so much about their war in the last two weeks and it's been a very sad eye opener for me. I've been protected from the horrors of war in my life and can now appreciate more the amazing sacrifice these men gave for our country.

    Best wishes.
    Lynne
     
  16. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Only one of these names jump out of my far from complete database but I will add what little I can at this stage.

    Williams - Edge Hill. I have 8 Williams on my spread sheet. One, 852930 Sgt Frank Joseph Williams, KiA 23/05/1944 is listed as coming from Liverpool but his full address is not given.

    Hindle - Cubbin Street. 3715464 Pte Hindle. H. Defence Medal Roll

    (My Dad - Everton) Not on Casualty List

    Front - Cookson - (City) Liverpool. One on Casualty List 1944. 3773975 A/Cpl F.T. Cookson

    Hummerton - Brownlow Hill. Nothing so far.

    Hector Roe. Not on any of my lists. The only Hector that I have is 3772943 L/Cpl Hector Fazackerley who was killed on the 25th May 1944 during the evacuation of the Blackpool Block he was reported as being badly wounded.

    I also have details of a Pte Douglas Roe 3777090 who was also killed on the 25th May 1944.
    I will look to see if any of these men are mentioned on the Defence Medal Roll.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  17. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I have found details of a Hector Roe whose birth was registered in the Toxteth Park area in the June quarter of 1915 and whose death was registered in the Liverpool area in 1969, age 53.

    There are no Hummertons listed and I suspect that the name is actually Hammerton. I have found an Alexander G Hammerton, whose birth was registered in Toxteth in 1914. Nothing to link them directly to the King's Regiment (Liverpool) yet. Neither appear on the 1944 Casualty Lists.
     
  18. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Defence Medal Roll: 3770699 Pte Hammerton. A.
     
  19. Thank you for the information High Wood. I'm amazed at how much you've found.

    I'm trying to read my Dad's writing of these names so I could well be slightly off and Hammerton looks right. 'Hec Roe' is the way that name is written in his letter. My Dad's family records were often registered in Toxteth Park and he was also born in 1915 so that all sounds very likely.

    Thank you for the extra details we can add to our family records.
     
  20. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Glad to be of help. Could you please upload a picture of the back of the photograph with the names as it may help to identify them?

    Simon.
     

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