1st Battn. Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, Italy May 1944

Hi dryan67…… in the absence of getting the war diaries, then the dates I am interested in for the movements of the 8th Indian Division are very specifically 23 May 1944 i.e. the day John Thomas Shaw was injured…… if the volume isn't too cumbersome then I guess anything from the immediate days and weeks before the 23rd May would also be of interest….. appreciate any and all help.

 

I will scan those pages shortly and post them.

 

Here are four pages from the Indian Official History volume on Italy for the period around May 23rd, 1944. It appears that the battalion was just holding the line.

 

This is confirmed from the regimental history of the 1st Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

 

Fabulous stuff, thanks………. think that's the mystery solved as much as possible. John thomas Shaw was, along with the rest of the 1 A&SH held in a position in reserve whilst the Poles attacked Piedimote and the 678th Dic=vision attacked the Adolf Hitler line. It was whilst being held in reserve that the regiment appears to have ben caught in some sporadic shelling, killing / injuring several men.

…dryan67…….. last request (promise!)……… the 1 A&SH regimental history extract you posted refers to Map 9 to see the site of their position….. any chance you could scan that and post it for me.

Thanks everyone for everything….. you've really helped the family get a better understanding of what John was involved in whilst in Italy in particular.

 

Here is Map 9 from the 1st Argyll's history:

 

By my sums, that puts the 1 A&SH Concentration Area at Volla - just to the south west of what is now the FIAT car factory.

FdeP

 

Hi minden1759 & dryan67,

Think this is the final nail in the location coffin - thanks……… cross referenced the map above with other current maps and hear what you saying about Volla, but I would actually put the location of 1 A&SH on 23 May 1944 slightly to the east of the Fiat factory, and a nudge to the north west of Campolargo Lupitti….. apols if a bit pedantic, but saw a post on another thread on this forum that said pedantic was good!

Spent much of Easter weekend with the in-laws……. my father in-law has been overwhelmed with what you guys have helped to put together about his dad. He confirmed that his dad told the story that when he was in Cassino, he was in trench / bunker when a mortar shell exploded at the edge of the bunker…. his two friends took the full force of the blast and were killed, saving him and he was 'just' injured…… the fact he can now put a place to this story is great for him. If we ever get round to getting Andy to copy the war diary I hope to find who his friends were who died.

I'll stop saying thanks, but thanks!

 

War diaries do not necessarily have casualty lists. It is a bit hit or miss. I have copied the casualty lists from the 1st Argyll's regimental history for their period in Italy. All deaths are listed as well as officer wounded and missing. Other rank wounded and missing are only given as totals. The dates of casualties (death) do not quite match up to May 23rd. In fact there is no death listed for that date. Have your father-in-law take a look at the lists and see if any names seem familiar. Also there is the possibility that the death did not occur on the date of the injury, but may have occurred at a hospital at a later date.

David

 

I looked back at the entry I posted above from the regimental history. It states that during the period from May 20th to May 25th that enemy shelling caused the death of one man in B Company and the wounding of eight in A Company. This falls in line with the casualty lists I posted, but does contradict your father-in-law's story a bit. The only death listed in the period is 2989472 Cpl Convery on May 22nd, 1944.

 

Here is Corporal Convery's information from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website:

 

Cheers for the casualty lists,

Had a look and can't disagree with the logic of your analysis …….. my father in law can't recall any of the names of the men his dad served with nor more specifically those that he said saved his life when they were killed in the trench explosion…… I guess this is one of those family stories that has morphed over time to the extent that the details can't be verified in whole by the facts available to us today.


Thanks,

 

Here is a contemporary map showing where HQ 8 Ind Div was on 21 May 44. Just where 1 A&SH were in reserve.