1st. Battalion King's (Liverpool) Regt.

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by Hutchy46, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Rich,

    Thank you for the last email you sent me, I appreciate your sentiments.

    Here are some previous threads in regard to the 'Blackpool' stronghold. They may help give you a better understanding of the place and what the men endured there.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/burma-india/33736-%22blackpool%22-111th-indian-division.html

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/burma-india/41755-111st-brigade-2nd-chindit-expedition.html

    Here is a link to a thread showing a photo of the block from someone who visited there in 2003/2004.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/burma-india/22996-burma-india-%91forgotten%92-victoria-crosses-5.html
     
  2. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    The best maps I have come across are within what is known as "Barton's Narrative", held at Kew TNA - CAB44-185, map H has the best detailed map of the "Blackpool" area, but this is a 1/4 map - a gentleman from the DSA (a retired Colonel) has privately provided me with a list of the relevant 1" maps held at various places, including the Bodelian Library, the British Library and the IWM, that he has personally seen and catalogued for the DSA - this is a future project and a visit will be required - the maps are still considered "crown property" and are not comercially available, afaik...
    As far as detailed "Blackpool" area drawings go I now have 11 differing drawings that I intend to create an as-best-as merger to create one for my project...
    There are some maps freely downloadable from this site, which has an index link at the top of the page...

    Burma AMS Topographic Maps - Perry-CastaƱeda Map Collection - UT Library Online
     
  3. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Amazing maps! Thanks for that link. I found Admin Box/Ngakyedauk Pass in NF 46-14.

    Yay!
     
  4. impala_ood

    impala_ood Junior Member

    Steve/Ken thank you for the links and all your help, lots for me to be getting on with reading.

    What do you think my chances are of getting George's military records, as a great nephew? Or my Mum as a nephew? We think George did have children, but we are no longer in touch with them and I have no idea whether any of his direct descendants are still alive or not.

    Rich
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Rich,

    I have obtained some soldiers records using the 'Freedom of Information Act' as my aid to requesting these. Recently the MOD has delayed the issue of records obtained in this way too, so that the wait is similar to those requests by the family/next of kin. This is often over one year!!:mad:

    So there are options for you. You will need proof that he was a casualty, death certificate is best, but they do often except the entry on the CWGC website. I suppose the documents you have recently obtained could also be used as proof to, you will also need to state his service number, which you have anyway.

    The waiting time for service records has become ridiculous in my view, I guess it is a sensitive issue involving data, but I feel the MOD are missing the point in what they are trying to do (or not do, as seems to be the case).
     
  6. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    [zen-mode]Patience, Glasshopper... patience...[/zen-mode]:D
     
  7. impala_ood

    impala_ood Junior Member

    Blimey, over a year. And I thought family might get them quicker! I'll print the forms off and get them posted off. So maybe I shouldn't be surprised that 6 weeks ago the Navy told me I should have my Grandad's records within 6 weeks and I still haven't heard anything yet.

    Every time I log in I realise more and more how accurate Ken's tag line is "if research was easy..." etc etc

    Just the process of scanning/naming/filing all the photos from the family archives has taken an age, I seem to lose myself in the internet for hours trying to piece together pieces of information, and I've not even made it to a place like Kew yet (which sounds a bit daunting for a first timer like me).

    I think I've come down with a bug... a terrible itch to keep wanting to find out more... is there any cure?
     
  8. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    The general symptoms tend to lessen in about year 5. You will begin to recover fully once the website is online.:D
     
  9. impala_ood

    impala_ood Junior Member

    Steve and Ken, if either of you ever need anything doing in my neck of the woods to help with your work you only have to ask. I'm based in Kent, not far from the East Sussex border, nowhere in Kent or East Sussex is more than an hours drive away for me. I'm thinking if you ever need photos taking of anything, or even if there's any veterans local to me that might benefit from someone interested calling in on them now and again to see if they are okay, do a bit of shopping or something. I know you'd have to be careful with an offer like that over the internet from someone you don't know but I come fully health checked/security checked due my line of work.

    I have got this feeling inside that the sun is setting low for the survivors of our Grandparents generation and there is a part of me that suddenly feels I should do more, that I don't want them to quietly slip away. And that I would like to do something small to make sure those that have gone are not forgotten.

    If there's ever anything you think I can do for you or someone else just pm me or send me an email, I think you both have my email address.

    Rich
     
  10. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Steve and Ken, if either of you ever need anything doing in my neck of the woods to help with your work you only have to ask. I'm based in Kent, not far from the East Sussex border, nowhere in Kent or East Sussex is more than an hours drive away for me. I'm thinking if you ever need photos taking of anything, or even if there's any veterans local to me that might benefit from someone interested calling in on them now and again to see if they are okay, do a bit of shopping or something. I know you'd have to be careful with an offer like that over the internet from someone you don't know but I come fully health checked/security checked due my line of work.

    I have got this feeling inside that the sun is setting low for the survivors of our Grandparents generation and there is a part of me that suddenly feels I should do more, that I don't want them to quietly slip away. And that I would like to do something small to make sure those that have gone are not forgotten.

    If there's ever anything you think I can do for you or someone else just pm me or send me an email, I think you both have my email address.

    Rich

    Rich,

    Thank you for those heartfelt sentiments, I totally understand what you mean and how you feel.
     
  11. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    ... is there any cure?

    [mad cackle] Cure...? Cure...? CURE...? [/mad cackle]

    Born in mind, Rich...

    ps... both Steve and myself live far too close to Kew for our own good... just the time (required) issue that is relevant...:D
     
  12. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria. Patron

    Hi Guys,

    I am researching Cockermouth War memorial and with the help off Owen I have found a Chindt and who was a Captain in the 1st BN.,King's (Liverpool) Regt. His name was Captain James Coulthard details from CWGC - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2084986/COULTHARD,%20JAMES if you have any details concerning James and anything else you have that will help in my research I would be much appreciated.

    With regards Michael.
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Michael,

    Captain Coulthard was in Chindit Column number 82 in 1944 and was killed whilst out patrolling the Chindit airfield codenamed 'Broadway'.

    The Japanese had been attempting to infiltrate the perimeters of the stronghold for a while and many skirmishes had taken place. Some Gurkha Rifles had recently been captured and then butchered by the enemy and this is what brought 82 Column into the fray. Broadway was chosen as the original Chindit landing strip and had been taken by glider assault in early March, it took the Japanese an incredibly long time to get to grips with the new menace in their midst.

    Coulthard's column commander Major Richard Gaitley was not favoured during the Chindit Operation in 1944, firstly (but not officially) he was blamed for the loss of Coulthard's party, criticised for not sending enough men out to do this particular job. Then again a few weeks later, his column was split in two by enemy action as they marched out of Broadway and toward the other stronghold codenamed 'Blackpool'. Gaitley was removed from the operation.

    Attached are: A photo of the pages in 'March or Die' a book by Philip Chinnery, where Coulthard is mentioned and the entry of his death in the 77th Indian Infantry Brigade HQ War Diary for 1944. There may be other information in the 1st Kings diary for that year, but I do not have a copy to hand.

    Do you have a photo of his grave plaque at Taukkyan? This should be available from our good friend Bucklt if you do not.

    I'll send everything over to you by email very soon.

    The 77IIB HQ diary was sent to me by our member England Phil and was originally photographed by Drew I believe, so quite a team effort here.

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

    Owen and Deacs like this.
  14. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria. Patron

    Some excellent reading here Steve thanks very much. The major seemed a useless sort of chap very incompetent in my opinion, horrible reading about the Gurkhas very nasty indeed.
    No I haven't got a photo yet but it was on my list to get so will contact Buckit shortly he has got me some already.


    Regards Michael.
     
  15. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    No problem Michael, glad to help.
     
  16. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria. Patron

    Picture of James Coulthard's Headstone courtesy of Tony Beck (Bucklt).
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Hi All, some very interesting and somewhat sad reading regarding these men and what they did. It took me a short while to join but felt I had to as I have a vested interest in 1 Kings.

    My Father Michael ( Mick) Campbell served as a regular soldier with the Kings Liverpool Regiment before the war alongside his friend and my mothers brother William ( Todd) Sweeney. First recorded document is a swimming Certificate awarded to my Father on the 18th May 1938 at Camp Bay Gibraltar with C Coy 2nd Battalion The Kings Regiment and then they seem to have been sent to India.

    Sadly they were separated when the Battalion ( as the story in my family goes) were on a train heading to the coast for the troop ship home at the same time my father was on another train from the Hospital ( Malaria we think) heading for the troop ship home.
    The battalion never made it as they were stopped and asked to volunteer for the Chindits which they did. My father came home and was downgraded on fitness and sent to guard prisoners somewhere in the North. Billy Sweeney was sadly killed in action fighting with the Chindits and his body never recovered and is on the wall at Rangoon.
    These are handed down stories so not sure how accurate they are in regard to the train part. The rest is fact. My Father spoke little of it and sadly died of emphesema when i was 15 ( now 59).
    They both resided in Liverpool my Dad being a scouse of Scottish descent ( I am a Liverpool fan even though I am so cockney it hurts) and Billy being a Scouse from Irish descent ( his dad Billy Sweeney Senior fought with the Dublin Fusiliers in WW1 I am told).
    I have letters, photographs, army pay books and the like although they are mostly of people i do not know with no names on the back. There is a letter to Billy Sweeney's mum ( my gran) from my dad saying Billy was distressed as he had not heard from his Mother which seems to have been written from somewhere ( and its hard to make out but looks like) called no 6 Coy 1 Wing LBRC have no idea where or what this is, the hospital perhaps.
    Dads army number was 3771067
    Billy's army number was 3771094
    If any of this is of interest to you all let me know will be happy to post pictures and documents.
     
  18. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Maroon machine,

    I am at work at the moment, but if my memory serves me correctly, William Sweeney was killed by a Japanese grenade or mortar whilst the Kings were evacuating from a place called 'Blackpool'. I'll try and find the paperwork when I get home.

    Steve
     
  19. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    OK, I'm back home and have had a look in my files and I do have one piece of information on William. He was killed by a grenade or mortar as he and three other Chindit comrades attempted to march away from the former stronghold named 'Blackpool'.

    I can get this document to you if you like, just let me know.

    Steve
     
  20. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Two pages in the MIA's - bottom on one, top of the next... seriously impressed by your memory, Steve... but do tell me you've renewed that card by now... :biggrin:

    No other references I can find at present I'm afraid - I have a word doc of a cross reference for 1KLR from the 111th diaries for that time that I can send on too but their own (1KLR) diaries are "missing" from Kew...
     

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