1st Army Timeline

Dryan /Recce mitch

NOW i fully understand why Churchill was in such a snitch when he complained just before El Alamein of why 8th Army had 160,000 men show up for pay and food..but ONLY 100,000 men

show up to fight…..how long does it take you to ferret all that all out..when you could be out getting some fresh air …?

Cheers

 

Great comment, Tom. I came across this file when I was doing research for one of my books. I am always amazed at the number and variety of support units required for a fighting army. It is no wonder that in mid-1943, the British did not wish to keep both 1st and 8th Army as field forces.

 

dryan

By that time of course the 1st Army had completed it's mandate and the 8th was losing both XXX Corps and V111 Bde to the D. Day thingi - so most of 1st Army made up and increased the

strength of 8th Army - what is often forgotten is the fact that 8th landed on Italy with only four Divisions against a lot more of the enemy - I don't think there was ever a time when we out numbered

them except in RASC and RECCE - we had enough - if not too many Tanks - but never enough Infantry…..

Richard-
My memory restored itself after the error of calling the Irish 38th bde - " Fire Fighters " as that nickname belonged to the 36th Bde of the Buffs - West Kents - Agile and Sufferins as both were

excellent in 78th Div...

Cheers

 

Attached are 2 pages from 22 Brigade HQ with formation dates and an indication of 58 HAA Regiment location in Sep 42 while still in the UK.
They seem to have been involved in an exercise 'dryshod'
Any info on this from other members would be appreciated.

 

Dryshod was an "amphibious" training exercise, which took place in Ayrshire from 1st to 10th Aug 1942 - of course it took place on the land...

 

Hi

There are pages and pages referring to the exercise in the Brigade diary but I have to confess to not reading them in detail but some sections seem to imply that L.C.Ts (which I assume were Landing Craft Tank) were used otherwise I agree, the clue is in the name perhaps!

Are you aware of anything at Kew that might specifically cover the exercise?

 

Hutt

going from my memory once more - I seem to recall that there were two large exercises held in lower Scotland about that time..Dryshod and Wetshod in which the newly formed

21st Tank bde was involved...

Cheers

 

Hutt,

Don't know about the "Wet..." version but the "Dry.." version was definitely all on dry land - there was a number of other exercises in that period including ones called "Niblick" and "Raven", the latter apparently involved an all night signals exercise when two benzedrine tablets were issued to each person involved..the men in the white coats were, no doubt, involved.

I suppose a 78th Div or 6 Armoured Division (say) war diary or a higher level might have some overview of the exercise schemes that took place...

Thanks, Tom, for the clarification on 36 Brigade being called the 'fire fighters'... the men wearing the green shamrock on their sleeve may well have been referred to in other *expletive deleted* explicit terms. There is no doubt that the men from 38 Brigade were good at 'fighting', though.

best

 

Thanks for all the snippets of information in your recent posts; it is helping me build up a picture of the regiment prior to it embarking to North Africa.

I am wondering if the regiment left for North Africa straight after the exercise (as I am sure I have a note somewhere which suggests that they left in September 1942) or whether they returned to Kent before embarking.

My man (who was posted from 138HAA to 58HAA in November) presumably joined them overseas.

Anyway, please keep the discussion going as I am finding it fascinating (although at some stage I will have to get back to my RAF research!)

Regards (and thanks to you all once again)

Pete

 

It was taking about 11/12 days for convoys to get from Scotland/Liverpool etc to North Africa.. for example, the first 1st Army Assault Group (incl 11/36 Brigade, the ones who landed on the night of 7/8 Nov) left on 27th Oct 1942..my Dad left Greenock on 11 Nov 1942 (albeit they milled around in the Clyde estuary for another 2 days or so) and arrived at the port of Algiers on 22 Nov 1942.

Dryshod finished in early August 1942, as you know..

 

I have an embarkation date of 27th November 1942, (so just after your Dad), which, as far as I can work out, means my man was on the Duchess of Bedford.

I assume therefore he joined 58HAA in Kent (from 138HAA), although I have yet to establish where 138HAA were based (so any help on that one would be useful)

Regards

Pete

 

Richard

Finally dragged out th regimental diary and find that we had the movement order for Dryshod on July 27th and into the scheme on the 30th - until 14th August - from and back to Langholm in Ayrshire

after six days training - straight into "JUMBO No 1 " - when the whole regiment finished by running a cross country - in full Battledress- aaarrrggghhh…then it was off to Hawick to train with 1st

Guards bde - then back to "JUMBO 2 " - Castlemartin for all gunners etc …think the regt was glad to sail for North Africa…for a rest…!

Cheers

 

Tom,

no doubt once you got to North Africa, you wanted to get straight back to Scotland..or may be not

best

 

Sorry if this question is a bit naïve, but in Recce_Mitch's listing it doesn't show 58HAA within a Division; does this mean they were under direct command of HQ?

Regards

Pete

 

Richard

Not only Scotland but anywhere else...

Cheers

 

They were under the command of 22nd Anti-Aircraft Brigade, a 1st Army asset.

 

Hi all. Rather late to this thread but I have much info on Sgt J Bird of 208th Battery 58th RA. HAA. Personal war diary and photos. Will post more detail soon. He left Gourock on the "Sobieski" 26th Oct 1942

Best Regards

Chris

 

dryan67' thank you for posting the 1st Army document And Chris, look forward to anything you can post as well.