181 Sqn Typhoon F/SGT J A BROWN JP 838. (Hamburg Cemetery, Ohlsdorf). Last seen North east of Kiel FLAK ? ( RAF FIghter Command Losses ) 3 MAY 45. Maybe someone can assist me? I'll explain! My current research involves tracing some graves of forced labour persons who died on 3 May 1945 when the train they were travelling on was attacked by Allied planes who had mistaken the train as carrying Nazis. All of this happened at the time of the Luebeck Bay bombing of ships carrying refugees which resulted in the deaths of 7000 people, mainly refugees. I believe reports concerning this episode were locked away for 100 years on orders of Churchill. The area the train was travelling in at the time of the attack was: Bockholt - Eutin -Ploen, Germany. This attack episode has been well covered by a researcher, who did work for a book called: Lw. 2/XI - Muna Luebberstedt (Zwangsarbeit fuer den Krieg). The book concentrates on the mainly women who were drawn together from various KZ Camps to work at the munitions camp at Luebberstedt, which was located, North of Bremen.. The researcher's main interest is cataloguing plane crash sites in northern Germany during WW2, this includes German as well as Allied planes. He has asked me if it is possible to find out more information than I have listed here from the notes he already has. Are there archives with more information about the flight on that day. I'd appreciate leads! Thanks...Alan PS. Other research to follow: On 23 April 1945, Three aircraft were hit by flack in the area between flack position Oldenbüttel, Bremen und flack position Lübberstedt, Bremen.. 1.Typhoon from 198 Squadron. CASEY, Ray, Australian. Pilot killed. 2.French pilot "Jack Carre". 340 Squadron flew a Spitfire. Pilot killed 3.Mosquito hit during night flight. 464 Squadron. Royal Australian Airforce, Crew RUTTER / TAYLOR survived
you might find this link of nterest http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/43457-italian-pows-used-for-slave-labor-in-lubeck-germany/
437196 P/O Raymond Thomas Casey RAAF http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1065319 427949 F/O Douglas Ross Rutter RAAF (file not digitized) http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=1075997&isAv=N 429676 F/Sgt Aubrey Arthur Taylor RAAF (file not digitized) http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=1081940&isAv=N Lt. Jack Carré, FAFL: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl22=fr&ie22=UTF8&oe22=UTF8&prev22=%2Flanguage_tools&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cieldegloire.com%2F004_carre_j.php&langpair=fr|en&submit22=GO Regards, Dave
Dave, Great that you have listed the files regarding the the pilots I mentioned in my post.. My friend will certainly have some reading to do to gather the complete picture. Douglas Rutter and Aubrey Taylor files are not live! I have tried as a 'Guest', but have not found out how to bring the files up. If it is possible! Maybe you could mail me with instructions. Thanks Alan
Alan, When an RAAF file at the NAA as not been digitized, it means you can't see it........yet. They currently charge $19.00 AUD to digitize a file. I see the session timed out. Go to naa.gov.au and use Taylor and Rutter's service numbers to search. Once you find the page there is an option to obtain a copy. Clicking on that will take you through the payment procedure. Regards, Dave
Many thanks Alan, I have had a dummy run and after a few twists and turns got to the Payment for digitised copy.... I will will mail my friend and explain how to obtain a copy and costs. Much appreciated for your guidance ...................
181 Sqn Typhoon F/SGT J A BROWN JP 838. (Hamburg Cemetery, Ohlsdorf). Last seen North east of Kiel FLAK ? ( RAF FIghter Command Losses ) 3 MAY 45. Dave has steered me on how to retrieve Archives Archives for Australian crews who flew in WW2. I have searched the web on where to seek information on F/Sgt J A Brown and found nothing! Is there a specific site where I can find information? Thanks.
Is this the bloke you are looking for info on? http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2199851/BROWN,%20JAMES%20ARTHUR Flight Sergeant BROWN, JAMES ARTHUR 1393134 of 181SQN RAF - Date of Death:03/05/1945 HAMBURG CEMETERY - Grave Reference: 5A. N. 8 Son of Arthur William Brown, and of Florence Rebecca Brown, of Ipswich, Suffolk. One source of info could be the squadron Operational Records Books (ORB) - basically the unit history. As you only want one month it would be probably cheapest to download the pages from the TNA site for 3 quid per file - possibly need two files as most units did the ORB in two halves, one part covered flying operations and the other covered administrative details.
Thanks DaveB, I went to NTA via the net and retrieved the two files you described for 181 Sqn. I did find a short entry regarding Flt/Sgt Brown and his plane going missing. The files on PO Casey retrieved from the Australian Files contained a wealth of information including attempts to identify the location where his plane came down. Do similar files exist at TNA for F/Sgt Brown? I suspect as they contain personal information, they would not be available.
I wanted to edit my last to include thanks for CWGC info on Flt Sgt Brown. My contact in Germany did have some details. PS. I have lost ability to edit my posts, it is grayed out! Was ok yesterday! PPS. Seems back now!
Reading through 'Summary of Events' describing what went on whilst attacking convoys/targets etc. sometimes referred to as eg. destroyed 40+Met' or 3 Met destroyed. Met being ??? Can someone enlighten me?
