Hi guys, me again lol I have so many questions but hate keep bugging you guys, but your just so good at what you all know. Feel free to ignore me if I get on your earholes xx I'm going to attach his records so if your really bored it might help you out a bit Pte George Neve RAMC 181 Airlanding Field Ambulance, according to his records was in North Africa for 3 months. On his casualty records I have him arriving in N Africa 26 May 1943 and being injured and leaving for the Uk on 22 November 1943, that's more than 3 months so that doesn't make sense to me at all Thanks to you guys on here we established that he did Sicily in July 43 but that period is all I have. He got the Africa star medal so he was doing something there I know Questions for that.. Where in North Africa would he have landed? What would he have done there? He was admitted to Hospital in Africa on 16 Nov before being sent home on 22nd, is there any way I can find out what injuries he had? Also on the records it says 'Refused TAB. TT inoculations on 20 November 1945' I know what the inoculations were, I also know they had them when they first went into 181, could I be correct in thinking that the jab made him ill when he signed up, so when he came home and was offered it again he refused it based on the reaction the first time around? I'm researching as much as I can, finding information about Arnhem is easy, I have enough to write a book on that alone, but its the rest of his service I'm struggling with. I'm planning on going to Duxford at some point, to see what I can find out there, once I can drag myself away from under the Vulcan (one of the great loves of my life) but I want to find out as much as I can before I go. Thank you so much to all of you who have helped so far, you will be acknowledged should I ever manage to get this book written and printed x
While Duxford is great you’ll find a lot of information about 181 Airlanding Field Ambulance at the Museum of Military Medicine at Keogh Barracks
Hi, Can’t help re your query but while I note his statement of service refers to the Africa Star entitlement it may not be correct as he only arrived in North Africa 26th May 1943 and the qualification period ended with the cessation of hostilities 12th May 1943. You often see an entitlement recorded on the statement of services during the war is corrected by Army Medal Office when application for the medals was made post war. You are very lucky to get a copy of the Army form that recorded correspondence and movements of a soldier after he was taken POW. MOD don’t usually release those forms. Steve
Here to help a bit. You asked: Where in North Africa would he have landed? What would he have done there? This is guess work: I would expect his troopship disembarked at an Algerian port, Algiers is most likely. I think Luftwaffe attacks on ports and submarines had reduced by May 1943. Then a slow journey forward to Tunisia, by truck and train. It is possible a convoy would run as far as Bizerta. Well after a pause I found this and my bold: From: Sergeant Bill Griffin From: 181 Airlanding Field Ambulance RAMC | ParaData Via site with a warning: Unit based in July 1943 @ M'Saken i.e. prior to Sicily and list of staff and activity. See: 181 Airlanding Field Ambulance, RAMC The town M'Saken is near Sousse in Tunisia: M'saken - Wikipedia There are a few online references to the 1st Airborne Division having camps there and that a nearby airfield was where they departed from. Officer lost 10/7/1943 in Sicily landing: Captain Hubert Gough Greeves - Dungannon War Dead Assumption you are aware of: https://img8.gettextbooks.com/pi/1910777390/500/500 Incidentally have you seen the photos on: https://twitter.com/Ken54027251/status/1327882586123808773
Hello Steve, (via phone away from home so can't check properly at present) Something in the back of my bonce is ticking that it will be a "when entered theatre" thing date/time. Pretty sure Africa Star eligibility/entitlement started when convoy/ship entered straights of Gibraltar and at what time/date. This is what entitled so many of 2nd (Airborne) Battalion The South Staffordshire Regiment to have the Africa Star up re Stirling Castle that David has mentioned, so I think George Neve would have been entitled as such. Kind regards, always, Jim. Edit: Will stand/sit corrected if my thinking is completely addled, happily.
Hi Jim, Thanks for your input. David’s post (after mine) quotes a link to a site saying the unit sailed from UK 15th May 1943 - so still after 12th May “cut off” date - ties in with OP B103 entry saying he embarked 16th May. Steve
Grandad kept his medals, and yes, he did get the Africa Star, along with the Italy Star, France and Germany Star, Defence Medal, 1939-45 medal and the War Medal. When he died Nan kept them till 1985 when she died, my Uncle then had them until he passed, my cousin now has them.
The War diary states that they embarked on board MV Stirling Castle at 1400 hrs on 16th May and sailed for Liverpool at 1900 hrs, arriving at the River Clyde at 2000 hrs on the 17th. They left the Clyde in convoy at 1900hrs on the 19th and docked at Oran at 2000 hrs on the 26th May and disembarked overnight, arriving at their staging area at 1230 the following day. As such the award of the Africa Star certainly appears to have been in error as the cut off date for this award was the 12th May at which time they were still in Bulford Camp, Salisbury. Dad was a Stafford and was not granted this award and I cannot recall seeing any of his comrades wearing this medal.
On the face of it and as per the details recorded on the B103 IMHO there doesn’t appear to be an Africa Star entitlement but while Medal Office clerical errors are rare they aren’t unknown. Steve
[QUOTE="Ebonyuk72!, post: 1007734, member: 92787" Pte George Neve RAMC 181 Airlanding Field Ambulance, according to his records was in North Africa for 3 months. On his casualty records I have him arriving in N Africa 26 May 1943 and being injured and leaving for the Uk on 22 November 1943, that's more than 3 months so that doesn't make sense to me at all Thanks to you guys on here we established that he did Sicily in July 43 but that period is all I have. He got the Africa star medal so he was doing something there I know Questions for that.. Where in North Africa would he have landed? What would he have done there? He was admitted to Hospital in Africa on 16 Nov before being sent home on 22nd, is there any way I can find out what injuries he had?[/QUOTE] Hi, You need to remember that the details on the B103 and statement of services forms were completed by Army Clerks based on information gleaned from other forms. They were often updated many months after the event rather than contemporaneously. There were 3 copies of the B103 but only one is apparently kept by MOD. Scots Guards service files on findmypast have all 3 copies and there are often slight differences. it is not unusual to see men recorded on their statement of services form as being in “North Africa” for a lengthy continuous period with no mention of service in Italy despite the award of an Italy Star. It is down to an omission by the overworked clerks. Similarly it’s not unusual to see Embarkation to Sicily (more often “embarked unknown destination”) and subsequent return to N Africa being ommitted. Your best lead is in your Scan 6 - the top portion of the front page of his November 1945 medical. He speaks of spending 3 months in North Africa, 2 days in Sicily and 3 months in Italy. To learn more you need to get his unit war diary from UK National Archives. 1st Border Regiment followed a similar route May/November 1943 performing an infantry role up the east coast of Italy as far as Termoli. You won’t find out full details of his service medical history as MOD don’t release it - hence the reason why you only received the top portion of his November 1945 medical. Steve
Hi, You need to remember that the details on the B103 and statement of services forms were completed by Army Clerks based on information gleaned from other forms. They were often updated many months after the event rather than contemporaneously. There were 3 copies of the B103 but only one is apparently kept by MOD. Scots Guards service files on findmypast have all 3 copies and there are often slight differences. it is not unusual to see men recorded on their statement of services form as being in “North Africa” for a lengthy continuous period with no mention of service in Italy despite the award of an Italy Star. It is down to an omission by the overworked clerks. Similarly it’s not unusual to see Embarkation to Sicily (more often “embarked unknown destination”) and subsequent return to N Africa being ommitted. Your best lead is in your Scan 6 - the top portion of the front page of his November 1945 medical. He speaks of spending 3 months in North Africa, 2 days in Sicily and 3 months in Italy. To learn more you need to get his unit war diary from UK National Archives. 1st Border Regiment followed a similar route May/November 1943 performing an infantry role up the east coast of Italy as far as Termoli. You won’t find out full details of his service medical history as MOD don’t release it - hence the reason why you only received the top portion of his November 1945 medical. Steve[/QUOTE] Thank you Steve. Thanks to horsapassenger on here, we established that he did go to Sicily as he was listed on Glider 30. I’ll look into a trip to the National Archives, thanks again
Hi, I couldn’t find to a War Diary for 181 Airlanding Field Ambulance in the National Archive Discovery Search engine when I searched yesterday evening. Unless you’ve been to Kew before and are au fait with the search processes there I’d suggest you’d be better asking one of the “expert looker uppers” such as Gary Tankard or Drew5233 to copy the file(s) for you. They charge reasonable rates. Steve
Yes i looked on National Archives last night and couldn't find it. The chap who runs the Pegasus Archive site has it, so I'm going to contact him
In my dotage I've clearly had a senior moment (one of many!) and mixed up my Africa Star thoughts twixt the South Staffs and 2nd Battalion The Parachute Regiment. Apologies to all, will have a dig when I return home for any Airborne South Staffs names with Africa Star awarded (which may only be chaps who were in North Africa with other regiments during the desert campaign and then went to 2nd South Staffs after Sicily/Italy as volunteers/replacements. In the meantime, not so sunny Walsall, had a dig at daughter number one's, found this; 181 Field Ambulance War Diary covering Sicily (attached as pdf. Dear George Neve listed (and now highlighted) within "Section 2" (OIC highlighted too; you'll know the name). Always remember, never forget, Jim.
Shows how naïve I am I thought M'Saken was something else, you can laugh at me, I am! So thank you for setting that straight, that makes more sense now The photos on Twitter Grandad is only in the photo of the full regiment, he is in the front row, sitting cross legged, 9th from the left. I have an original copy of that, that we found in his original things he left. I can't tell if he's in the other one as its not big enough.
This extract from the War Diary report provided by Jim may refer to your grandfathers 2 days in Sicily as only one glider made landfall on the island - “Actual Happenings - (1) Of the six medical gliders which set out, only one landed on the island. This contained the surgical team, under Capt. Rigby Jones, and 4 members of Section 2. This glider load was able to function as a very modified Dressing Station - cum - R.A.P. and did a lot of good work. Later they functioned in an M.D.S. as a surgical team.” The Diary entry 14/7/43 described Capt Rigby Jones rejoining the unit in Tunisia (likely via Libya) - with several OR’s - from Sicily. Steve
We knew he'd landed in the sea at some point, he told my Dad "they dropped us in the bloody sea about a mile out and we had to swim for it" I know from the list of who was on his glider a couple were killed, Grandad obviously survived after swimming for shore
