17 LAA RA, 1943 North Africa

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by Steve Newman, Mar 6, 2007.

  1. Steve Newman

    Steve Newman Member

    Can anyone help with where the 50th Battery. 17 Lt. A.A. Regt RA were in July 1942 and what unit/division they were attached to, weapons they would've had etc. Any info gratefully received.

    Regards
    Steve

    Wickford War Memorial
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Old thread but had no answers.
    RA 1939-45 17 LAA

    Jul 43
    Allied Forces HQ




    EVANS, Henry George
    1523218 Sergeant, 50 Battery 17 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery
    Killed North Africa, July 4, 1943 Age 33.
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve - have searched the 4th - 46th - 78th - 6th Armoured Divs who fought in North Africa - no sign of them - one point though - Sgt Evans of 50th Battery was killed in July 1943 - in North Africa which is two months after the end of that campaign - and six days before the Invasion of Sicily - so 78th were imvolved in those landings - and 46th were the floating reserve - the others were from 8th Army and the Canadians - so it would appear that Sgt Evans was killed loading for the invasion - and inasmuch as Ron Goldstein's mob -49th LAA - was the LAA for 78th Div - my guess would be 46th Div - there is a book on the 17th though - I'll try and find it for you ..
    Cheers
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    my guess would be 46th Div

    No Tom, 46 Div LAA Regt was 115th.
    RA 1939-45 115 LAA

    I imagine 17 LAA was providing a AA screen for either the ports or an HQ for the Husky op.
     
  5. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    Close mate.. Op. Torch

    From 'History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery - Anti-Aircraft Artillery, 1914-55' by Brig. Routledge Convoys assembled, as a mixed assortment of passenger and cargo vessels and warships, in the Clyde in late October 1942 and then sailed to a set programme. In the van were fast ships carrying troops and slower vessels carrying guns, vehicles and a few tanks; both elements were timed to arrive off the Algerian coast during the night of 7th/8th November - the Western task force had sailed directly from the United States. Every unit was pruned down to light assault scales; large equipment travelled seperately and full scales would not arrive for several weeks. Direct assault on Algiers was ruled out, as French fixed defences were strong there. All but two of the HAA and LAA batteries in the assault were to land as infantry with a few light vehicles and motor-cycles; the Americans were to provide 40mm detachments for the beaches. Once ashore, the AA batteries would have to await the unloading of guns and more vehicles, except for those to be redirected, while still on board, to Bougie and Bône. The ports were all vital but, in addition to them, the RAF wished to secure the major airfields at Maison Blance and Blida, near Algiers, and then Djidjelli, 200 miles to the east, beyond Bougie, as bases for their close support of 5th Corps.
    After an untroubled voyage from the Clyde, almost miraculously escaping attack, the 400 ships bound for Oran and Algiers passed through the Straits of Gibraltar and the two leading convoys of the Eastern Task Force converged on the Algerian coast, in darkness, early on 8th November. The convoy was protected by 65 warships, two of them aircraft-carriers, and brought with it 95 assorted landing-craft of which only six could carry heavy vehicles or tanks. The fast convoy, carrying the troops, nosed in towards the coast and split up to stand off the main beaches. Touch-down for landing-craft was planned for 13 points along 40 miles of coast straddling Algiers. Submarines were in position at the approaches, with naval parties in small boats, showing beacons, and launches waiting to guide the various flotillas. As soon as the big ships hove-to the infantry, gunners and other parties scrambled down nets into the landing-craft which had been lowered to recieve them; all got ashore with little trouble apart from the currents which affected touch-down. In the first flight were the BRA, together with HQ 22nd AA Brigade, under Brigadier C.A.H. Fairbank, six batteries of 17th and 49th LAA Regiments and three 58th and 80th HAA; 40th LAA was the divisional regiment of 78th Division. Two batteries, from 17th LAA Regiment, were deployed for beach protection and American detachments provided the remaining 40mm guns. The equipments came ashore in LCMs and the first were in action by noon.
    Three batteries of 17th LAA Regt RA later took up positions around Algiers harbour and the two airfields.

    In the AA Order of Battle for operation Torch dated January 1943
    One battery of 17th LAA was attached to HQ 5th Corps in 1st Army.
    The remainder were split between 22 AA Bde. at Souk-el-Khemis airfield, 66 AA Bde. at Bône harbour and airfield, with one battery under 62 AA Bde. at Maison Blanche airfield.

    This is the first reference to 17th LAA Regiment in the history.

    So in answer to the question, 17th LAA Regt. RA were still in the UK in July 1942. Not yet having departed for North Africa.

    Edit: Ah, I should read all of the thread before posting. July 1943 is the date I should be looking for.

    the OoB for Op. Torch dated mid March 1943. Has 17th LAA reunited and stationed at Souk-el-Khemis airfield.
    By May 1943 it only states 'Tunisian airfields' under command of 22 AA Bde. Tunis.
    The next mention of the Regt. is landing at Salerno in October 1943 eventually providing AA cover for Naples. Still with 22 AA Brigade.

    Bod
     
    Owen likes this.
  6. Steve Newman

    Steve Newman Member

    Hi Gentlemen and thanks for the info.

    Tom I am intrigued as to the mention of Evans you mention as he is indeed the very man I am interested in. The family were told he was killed when a shell exploded in the gun, he was also MID but again we have no idea what for.

    Bod, thank you for taking the time to type out all the additional info on the unit which has helped piece together a few more of their movements and locations and is information that is gratefully received by me and that I will forward to the family, whom I know will e very interested

    Kind regards to all

    Steve
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve -
    not too clear on your "MID" - or did you mean "MIA = Missing In Action" - usually when a man is wounded - he is hauled off to the CCS and this is usually unknown by HQ who then claim that as he did not answer the roll call -he is missing - but they had word that he was wounded and taken to CCS - then they will add that he was "missing but believed wounded" - then "KIA" - when the CCS reports his death !

    Not unusual for a misfire to explode when trying to extricate the round from the gun - so it's possible - that as he was a sergeant - he stepped up to do that job !
    Cheers
     
  8. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve -
    Not unusual for a misfire to explode when trying to extricate the round from the gun - so it's possible - that as he was a sergeant - he stepped up to do that job !
    Cheers

    Tom

    This rang a bell for me so I looked up an earler posting I made on this site.

    I am reminded of the only experience I ever had with a misfire.

    It was in Jan 1945 and I was being re-trained as tank-crew at Rieti in the centre of Italy.

    We were firing 75 mm rounds from a Sherman mark IV and had just loaded HE in the normal manner, that is, I, as loader, had just punched the shell into the breech and swung away to my left to avoid the recoil from hitting me in the shoulder.
    The gunner kicked the pressel switch, I did my "swinging" action but NOTHING happened.
    Panic all round and then the three of us shot out of the turret hatch and madly scrambled away from the tank.
    "Where do you think you're going ?" bellowed the instructor and with much embarrassment (and not a little fear) we had to retread our steps, get back in the turret and go through the procedure of getting rid of a dud round.
    I still go cold at the memory and offer up a belated hymn of praise to all the instructors who faced death daily because of their students stupidity.
     
  9. Steve Newman

    Steve Newman Member

    Hi Tom

    MID as in Mentioned in Despatches. I am told the action or work for which this would have happened is not recorded for WW2 which seems a great shame unless someone can perhaps tell me otherwise or shed some light on where to look?

    Ron thanks for the memories it would appear highly possible then that the famly legend is indeed true in this particular case.

    Kind regards
    Steve

    Steve
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve -
    depends on when the mention was recorded - had it not gone through prior to death - it ususally gets scrubbed - only the higher orders went through post mortem
    - there is a list somewhere recording mentions - Adam will probably have it !!!
    Cheers
     
  11. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    regimental book for sale on ebay
     
  12. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    I have now got the regimental history of the 17th LAA by Lt.Col. Eeles. This is the passage.
    In mid-July (1943), A.A. defences were withdrawn from Monastir and Kairouan North, and this necessitated an adjustment in the layout, with 17th taking over more sites at Sousse. This month also saw two tragic accidents, one of which resulted in the death of Gunner McMonnies of 96th, and the other in that of Sergt. H.G. Evans of 50th. McMonnies was killed on the outskirts of Hani West, where he had entered a salvage dump to see if he could find some spare parts for a vehicle. It is thought he must have trod on an Italian "red devil" and his death was instantaneous. These dumps were often death traps, as were other parts of airfields evacuated by the enemy, and booby traps were known to go off long after occupation by Allied troops. The fatal accident to Sergt. Evans occured at gun drill, and he also was killed instantly. He was a first class Detachment Commander and had done extremely well throughout the campaign. Later a recommendation for a "Mention in Despatches," which had been sent forward before his death, came through, which was thoroughly well deserved. This was the first of the two accidents of this kind which occurred in the Regiment throughout the war years. Fortunately the second did not have such serious consequences.
     
  13. Glen James

    Glen James Junior Member

    Hello, I am coming in a bit late here, my Dad (AE James) was CSM of the 50/17 and was released on Dec 15 1945 as W.O. II. I have his diary from Oct 1942 to Mar 1943, email me if interested in a copy. Regards, Glen
     
  14. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    Hello, I am coming in a bit late here, my Dad (AE James) was CSM of the 50/17 and was released on Dec 15 1945 as W.O. II. I have his diary from Oct 1942 to Mar 1943, email me if interested in a copy. Regards, Glen

    Hello and welcome Glen. Feel free to scan and post your Dads diary on here if you wish. I for one would like to see it. Here is a handy thread explaining how to add pictures to your posts.
     
  15. Steve Newman

    Steve Newman Member

    Many thanks chaps for the additional info which I will forward to the family. Glen I will also reply to your email but have been away and very busy for quite a while

    Cheers
    Steve
     
  16. gunner Harris

    gunner Harris Junior Member

    To anyone out there that may shed some light on the 17th LAA North Africa/Italy. My dad served in those campaigns and I'm hoping someone knew of him and can tell me any stories from that time.
    My Dad was in his early forties then and had served in the first World War as well as the second. He was at Salerno, Naples, Cassino, attached to the 1st Army, here's hoping, and what is the name of the book about the 17th LA, Colm :poppy:
     
  17. gunner Harris

    gunner Harris Junior Member

    Did anyone know my Dad, A.E, Harris 17thLAA
     
  18. gunner Harris

    gunner Harris Junior Member

    How can I get a copy of the Regimental book on the 17thLAA, Kind regards, Colm Harris
     
  19. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    How can I get a copy of the Regimental book on the 17thLAA, Kind regards, Colm Harris

    one here for sale on Abe Books

    History of the 17th Light AA

    Not cheap though..
     

Share This Page