17/21st or 16/5th Lancers Anzio?

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by AndyDenmark, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. AndyDenmark

    AndyDenmark Junior Member

    Hello everyone
    I am trying to find out a little about my grandfathers time in WW2, he died a good few years ago when I was young but I remember him talking about Anzio and Sherman tanks. I am not sure which of the two regiments he was in. It was a lancer regiment and he was wounded at Anzio but must have rejoined the unit as he ended up in Villach in Austria. I know all of the above is a bit vague but I was ten when he died so the memories are a bit sketchy. If I could just narrow down the regiment that was there that would be a start.

    Many Thanks

    Andy
     
  2. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Andy, I suspect the 16th/5th

    Theatres;
    United Kingdom 12/10/40 - 8/11/42;
    At Sea 9/11/42 - 22/11/42;
    N Africa 22/11/42 - 12/3/44;
    At Sea 12/3/44 - 14/3/44;
    Italy 14/3/44 - 15/5/45;
    Austria 15/5/45 - 31/8/45.

    Battles;
    1943:
    18 January - 25 January Bou Arada;
    14 February - 25 February Kasserine;
    7 April - 11 April Foudouk;
    22 April - 26 April El Kourzia;
    5 May - 12 May Zunis;
    1944:
    11 May - 18 May Cassino II;
    18 May - 30 May Liri Valley;
    4 July - 17 July Arezzo;
    17 July - 10 August Advance to Florence;
    25 August - 22 September Gothic Line;
    1945:
    13 April - 21 April Argenta Gap.

    Battle Honours: Fondouk; Bordj; Djebel Kournine; Tunis; North Africa 1942-3; Cassino II; Liri Valley; Advance to Florence; Argenta Gap; Italy 1944-5; Kasserine; Kairouan; Gromballa; Bou Ficha; Monte Piccolo; Capture of Perugia; Arezzo; Traghetto.

    Phil
     
  3. AndyDenmark

    AndyDenmark Junior Member

    Thanks Phil...that was quick..
    They look like the most likely candidates...Andy
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    16th/5th Lancers weren't at Anzio.

    I know off top of my head 46 RTR were but can't think of any other british Armoured Units who served in the Anzio beachhead.
    I'm at work & all my books are at home.
    Both those Lancers regiments were in 6th Armd Div.
    They fought in Liri Valley not Anzio.
     
  5. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    16th/5th Lancers weren't at Anzio.

    I know off top of my head 46 RTR were but can't think of any other british Armoured Units who served in the Anzio beachhead.
    I'm at work & all my books are at home.
    Both those Lancers regiments were in 6th Armd Div.
    They fought in Liri Valley not Anzio.
    Owen your spot had a quick look at OAB at Anzio and No 16th/5th Lancers, but 46 RTR were there as part of 1st Infantry Divison.
     
  6. AndyDenmark

    AndyDenmark Junior Member

    Thanks for the replies...Is it a possibility I am confusing Anzio and Salerno?
     
  7. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Thanks for the replies...Is it a possibility I am confusing Anzio and Salerno?

    None of these two regiments had fought at Salerno.
     
  8. AndyDenmark

    AndyDenmark Junior Member

    O.k thanks for that, perhaps I should try the regimental sites and try and find out if they have a service dtabase or something similar? I have his name so maybe I can try...not sure where the Anzio/Salerno thing came from then but I can remember his medals and a lancers plaque at his house many years ago....Andy
     
  9. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Hello everyone
    I am trying to find out a little about my grandfathers time in WW2, he died a good few years ago when I was young but I remember him talking about Anzio and Sherman tanks. I am not sure which of the two regiments he was in. It was a lancer regiment and he was wounded at Anzio but must have rejoined the unit as he ended up in Villach in Austria. I know all of the above is a bit vague but I was ten when he died so the memories are a bit sketchy. If I could just narrow down the regiment that was there that would be a start.

    Many Thanks

    Andy
    I cant link to the post but if you do a forum search for the thread 17th/21st Lancers in post 5 WW2 Veteran Tom Canning mentions Austria and being with the 16th /5th :)
     
  10. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    O.k thanks for that, perhaps I should try the regimental sites and try and find out if they have a service dtabase or something similar? I have his name so maybe I can try...not sure where the Anzio/Salerno thing came from then but I can remember his medals and a lancers plaque at his house many years ago....Andy

    You can start with this

    Full Histories: 16th/5th Lancers
    Full Histories: 17th/21st Lancers

    There was also in Italy the 9th Queen's Royal Lancers with 2nd Armoured Brigade of 1st Armoured Division.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hello everyone
    I am trying to find out a little about my grandfathers time in WW2, he died a good few years ago when I was young but I remember him talking about Anzio and Sherman tanks. I am not sure which of the two regiments he was in. It was a lancer regiment and he was wounded at Anzio but must have rejoined the unit as he ended up in Villach in Austria. I know all of the above is a bit vague but I was ten when he died so the memories are a bit sketchy. If I could just narrow down the regiment that was there that would be a start.

    Many Thanks

    Andy

    Hi Andy,

    I would apply for his service records (Assuming no one has suggested this already), they will confirm everything.

    Army Personnel Centre - British Army Website

    Regards
    Andy
     
  12. AndyDenmark

    AndyDenmark Junior Member

    Thanks...I will give it a go...
     
  13. tropper66

    tropper66 Member

    Both the 16/5th and the 17/21st were in 26 Armoured brigade in 6 armoured division and after the surrender of the German Army in Africa remained in Tunisia untill March 1944 and did not go into action untill May 1944 so they did not take part in any of the landings. Both units were in Austria just after the war for some months the 17/21 then going to Greece and the 16/5 to Northern Germany

    Hoe that helps
     
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Tropper 66 -
    has it nearly right as the 26th Armoured Division landed in
    Italy from North Africa late March '44 - was involved with the Kiwi's in the April Cassino II battle supporting the Kiwi 28th Maori Bde - again in Cassino III and again at Cassino IV in the Liri valley - then transferred to 5th US army along with 78th Div - 9th Amoured Bde and 6th Sth African Div and was active at Chiusi - Perugia - Arezzo and Florence and through the Gothic Line - returning to 8th Army for the final battles at the spring break up and played a vital role in the surrounding of Kesselring forces south of the River Po - they went on to Udine - Villach and settled in at Knittelfeld - Judenberg area awaiting the Russians to remove themselves back to Vienner Nuestadt.

    They were there around Southern Austria -Friesach -Alhofen - Tribach - Strassburg - the 16/5th taking part in the Vienna Tattoo - They had lost the Lothian and Border Horse - and the replacemnet 4th Hussars went off to Triete and they in turn were replaced by the Gloucester Hussars -who did the Musical Ride at the Tattoo.

    In early spring 1947 - I was demobbed from Villach back to Barnard Castle and the Brigade did a stint in Egypt / Libya before heading for Germany - they also were the
    recce for the 1st Armoured at Irag 1 in 1991 - they are now busy as a training - recce unit at Catterick.

    They did not appear at either Salerno nor Anzio - the other Lancer regiments in Italy were 9th - 12th and 27th Lancers - the last two being armoured cars .
    Cheers
     
  15. tropper66

    tropper66 Member

    Tropper 66 -
    has it nearly right as the 26th Armoured Division landed in
    Italy from North Africa late March '44 - was involved with the Kiwi's in the April Cassino II battle supporting the Kiwi 28th Maori Bde - again in Cassino III and again at Cassino IV in the Liri valley - then transferred to 5th US army along with 78th Div - 9th Amoured Bde and 6th Sth African Div and was active at Chiusi - Perugia - Arezzo and Florence and through the Gothic Line - returning to 8th Army for the final battles at the spring break up and played a vital role in the surrounding of Kesselring forces south of the River Po - they went on to Udine - Villach and settled in at Knittelfeld - Judenberg area awaiting the Russians to remove themselves back to Vienner Nuestadt.

    They were there around Southern Austria -Friesach -Alhofen - Tribach - Strassburg - the 16/5th taking part in the Vienna Tattoo - They had lost the Lothian and Border Horse - and the replacemnet 4th Hussars went off to Triete and they in turn were replaced by the Gloucester Hussars -who did the Musical Ride at the Tattoo.

    In early spring 1947 - I was demobbed from Villach back to Barnard Castle and the Brigade did a stint in Egypt / Libya before heading for Germany - they also were the
    recce for the 1st Armoured at Irag 1 in 1991 - they are now busy as a training - recce unit at Catterick.

    They did not appear at either Salerno nor Anzio - the other Lancer regiments in Italy were 9th - 12th and 27th Lancers - the last two being armoured cars .
    Cheers


    I am ex Bsqn,Air, and Dsqn 17/21st 1968 until 80 are you on I troop or Old mates
     
  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Andy Denmark -
    As England Phil pointed out in his list -the 26th armoured Bde of 6th Armoured Division, comprising the 16/5th Lancers - 17/21st Lancers and Lothian and Border Horse - left North Africa in time to assist in the Cassino II battle
    in support of the 28th Maori Bde of the Kiwi 2nd Division at the rail station in Feb/March '44 not 11th May '44 - which was the start of "Diadem".
    They then had a rest as not wanted at Cassino III but were in the front of the line at Cassino IV - which was "Diadem" and the 17/21st Lancers were first over the river to enter the Liri Valley.
    That being so and factual - they did NOT fight at either Salerno(sep9th '43) nor Anzio ( jan 22nd "44) but pushed through the Liri Valley.
    When that operation ended with the "liberation" of Rome - they then transferred to XIII corps attached to the US 5th Army and made their way up the Western side of the Appenine Mountains - fighting at Chiusi -Trasemino - Arezzo and spending the winter in the Mountains above Florence.
    In the spring they again went back to the 8th Army and took part in the succesful rounding up of the German Armies South of the Po River - at the ending they then pursued the enemy into Austria and occupying the Central sector around Knittelfeld - Judenburg - then Althofen - Friesach -Tribach - Strassburg then back down to Villach prior to the move back to Egypt in summer 1947
    I then was demobbed from 16/5th Lancers at that point .
    As far as I am aware the only Tank battalion at Anzio was 46th RTR - and 7th Armoured at Salerno....
    Cheers
     
  17. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Tropper
    I tried the "old mates" a couple of years ago but there are no "mates" of my vintage left it would appear - I was also with B.Sqdn with Capt. later Brig.Peter Bull and Maj Johnston
    Cheers
     
  18. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sol -
    Those "histories" are edited versions for the new web site - the older history went back to 1689 when the 16th were formed and took in the American Revolution - India - South Africa and even South America at Bueno Aires...this new one is very much watered down !
    cheers
     
  19. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Sol -
    Those "histories" are edited versions for the new web site - the older history went back to 1689 when the 16th were formed and took in the American Revolution - India - South Africa and even South America at Bueno Aires...this new one is very much watered down !
    cheers

    Cheers Tom

    Yes, those are the short histories of 16th/5th and 17th/21st Lancers after amalgamation of their predecessor regiments in 1922. Of course their histories are much longer and on the same site is possible to find short histories of 5th, 16th, 17th, 21st Lancers before 1922 just like history of the Queen's Royal Lancers after 1993 amalgamation. I only put the part about WW2. Maybe there is not much details about actions but good place to start with research.

    Enes
     

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