I am wondering if anyone has the following WO 175/291 War Diary for November 42 to June 43, or is going to Kew at all? Thanks please message me if you do/are
I am very interested in B Sqn 16/5L's support to 2 London Irish at Casa Sinagoga on 16 May 44 - their advance to Line PYTCHLEY, if you would not mind photoing and then posting those pages. Regards Frank
Have you read Soldier On: the Personal Experiences of a Tank Crewman in the 16th/5th Lancers During the Second World War the guy who wrote it, S. Knowles, was in B squadron - I just finished reading it, well worth it
Sorry I didn't have time to do this, there was so much to wade through and to be honest I think I learnt more about my father's movements in the war from the above quoted book 'Soldier On'.
Frank, no doubt you have a lot already but a couple of clips here: Of course, Robert Gill, from co Meath, was killed at the start line of the Royal Irish Fusiliers' attack north from Colle Monache towards Route 6 on the morning of 17th May 1944 .. Major Lawrie Franklyn-Vaile was killed alongside him.
I spoke to my father's OC, Mervyn Davies, about the events of the 16th and am always struck by his written account about the advance on Casa Sinagoga: "The attack started at 0920hrs, preceded by very heavy artillery fire which began at 0900hrs. We went forward with a troop of 16/5 Lancers (and Derbyshire Yeomanry, perhaps). The initial advance was through a cornfield where the corn was quite golden and very tall and it was a shame to see tanks mow it down. On the other hand, the corn afforded useful cover to the infantry. Due to the noise of the artillery and tanks, we did not realise that we had come under heavy fire until we saw the odd man fall. I remember seeing Lance Sergeant Williams, a young soldier who had come from the 70th Battalion, fall at this point. We were able to approach the wood under the protection of our own artillery fire, which was very accurate. I had an air photograph and this was of the greatest help in enabling us to take advantage of the fire plan. I remember trying to communicate with the tank commander by using the telephone on the outside of his Sherman tank, but of course, the thing would not work. But the tank commander obligingly opened his turret when I hammered on it with a rifle and I showed him where I supposed some German fire was coming from..." A few years ago, we met with Franco Sinagoga's father who was sheltering in the farmhouse during the attack... what a moment.
The copies of the war diaries are too big to post here and I'll send to you by eMail. Meanwhile, there's a number of photos (from 6th March 1944) of men of C Squadron of the 16/5 Lancers on the IWM site... a sample here: ITALY : FIFTH ARMY TANKS CREWS RESTING BEFORE BATTLE
With apologies for bumping an old thread i just thought i'd see if anyone can offer any practical advice around determining the squadron my Granddad might have served in during the Italy campaign. I have his service record and have found that he was a trooper in the 16th/5th Lancers from September 1943 onwards but there's no real detail in there that would narrow my search down any further. I intend to visit the regimental museum in the near future to get hold of the war diaries, will it purely be a case of 'pot luck' if his name happens to crop up in there or are there any other places i can possibly try to see if he's listed against a squadron, echelon or whatever sub-unit? Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Wursel Tree Very much pot luck. The document that would inform you which Sqn he was posted to when he joined 16/5L is called Part 2 Orders. Part 2 Orders, published every day within the Regt, would also have announced any change of Sqn. Unfortunately, National Archives only store War Diaries. The Regt’l Museum might have kept Part 2 Orders. Regards Frank
A lot if not all of the Regiments archives are now held at Stoke Library, were they are being categorised and digitalised. They were saved from being thrown in the skip.
Thanks that's potentially really helpful as i know what im looking for now if i try and trawl through the Stoke online catalogue. At first look i'm not terribly confident but fingers crossed something will turn up somewhere!
Some war diaries do have Part 2 orders (perhaps 1 in 20?) but 16/5 Lancers isn't one of them - from the ones I have seen.
Thanks Gary, i'll hopefully get whatever they have at the museum in the next few weeks and take it from there. From a look at the Stoke online catalogue there's nothing that obviously stands out as being Part 2 Orders (or similar) but again I probably need to look in a bit more detail. As an aside, if I pick up a copy of the war diaries on a USB stick i presume I can list them on here for free or provide them on request to people via DMs if they are of interest?
