15th Bn. Canadian Infantry WW1 query

I have finally got the Canadian diarys working, so i am now trying to tie up a diary with a casualty and i would like to match them up.
On his headstone it says that he was wounded on the 3rd Battle of Ypres June 2nd 1916, and he died at Shorncliffe Hospital Kent, June 26th 1917.
So i would like to no if these links coincide with him getting wounded at Ypres.Not being good at geography are they at Ypres.

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092291.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092292.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092293.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092294.jpg

CWGC :: Casualty Details

Regards Michael.

 

Owen you are a legend thanks very much for that cheers.

Michael.

 

but remember it was known at times as Third Battle of Ypres (Mount sorrel) June 1916, before the more famous 1917 battle earned that title, so the 1916 dates from a canadian point of view would fit...
matt

 

Do you have a source for that Matthew?

If anything the action at Bellewaarde in September 1915 would have been seen as a 'Third Ypres'.

To be honest I don't think terms like that we're really used until post-war.

 

That was one heck of a good read thanks Owen.

 

Hi Deacs. - Incase it is of any interest.

John Black was part of the 92nd Battalion's 1st Reinforcing Draft and sailed on the SS Lapland from Halifax on 27th November 1915 and arrived at Plymouth on 4th December.

 

Here's the link to the full diary for the 15th Btn Canadian Infantry, 48th Highlanders of Canada for the period 1916/05/01-1917/12/31. Page 6 is June 2nd, 1916 and shows they had a few casualties moving off Scottish lines to Zillibeke.
No mention of number of deaths (and they don't list names) on the June 26th, 1917 diary page, although even if there were it is unlikely he would be included.

I'll let an expert clarify this:

CEF · 15th Battalion (48th Highlanders of Canada), CEF · 92nd Battalion (48th Highlanders) are both part of the Canadian expeditionary force...what is the difference IE: Highlanders of Canada and just Highlanders?

War Diaries of the First World War

Also a page listing all the diaries in case you want to investigate earlier actions.
15th Canadian Infantry Battalion, War Diaries. - Canada at War Forums

Wayne

 

Hi Wayne. There is no difference. In WW1 the militia regiment 48th Highlanders (of Canada) raised 3 Battalions. 15th (fighting Bn), 92nd & 134th (reinforcing Bns). The 48th also raised companies equal to two or more battalions for other units.

Think of the 15th, 92nd and 134th as being the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Bns 48th Highlanders.

 

Thanks RJL, clear and concise explanation.

Cheers,
Wayne

 

I have finally got the Canadian diarys working, so i am now trying to tie up a diary with a casualty and i would like to match them up.
On his headstone it says that he was wounded on the 3rd Battle of Ypres June 2nd 1916, and he died at Shorncliffe Hospital Kent, June 26th 1917.
So i would like to no if these links coincide with him getting wounded at Ypres.Not being good at geography are they at Ypres.

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092291.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092292.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092293.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e044/e001092294.jpg

CWGC :: Casualty Details

Regards Michael.

Good day Deacs (Michael),

Pte John Irving Black, 15th Bn Canadian Infantry, who is buried in Whitehaven Cemetery was a WW1 casualty. He was the husband of Annie Black of Toronto, Canada. Periodically, some of his relatives kinfolk come over to the UK and lay a poppy wreath and flowers at this family grave. He has certainly not been forgotten. I have photographs of this headstone with a poppy wreath tied to it.

I assume you have probably also deduced, Private John Irving Black was one of two sons of Robert and Mary Black from Cleator Moor, Cumberland to lose their lives in the war. The other was Private James Black, also 15th Bn Canadian Infantry (died 10/10/1916). Pte James Black is buried at Puchervilliers British Cemetery, France (Somme). He was the husband of Mrs Violet Black, whose wartime address is given as Ambleside.

Being natives of Cleator Moor these two are listed on the Cleator Moor 'Roll of Honour'. The two Black brothers are also listed on the St John's Parish Church, Cleator Moor War Memorial which I believe you have visited.

I am not exactly sure of the reason whey Private John Irving Black was buried at Whitehaven Cemetery rather than at St John's, Cleator Moor Churchyard. Looking back at so many years afterwards one might have thought a burial in his hometown of Cleator Moor would have been the preferred choice of his family at the time. Perhaps if we knew more about the family circumstances the reason for the final burial place in Whitehaven Cemetery would be obvious.

As you have already discovered, Private John Irving Black died of wounds in hospital in the south of England. If he had died over on the Western Front he would have been buried in one of the cemeteries over there. Ypres, the dear old 'Wipers' of the time of our forefathers who were over there, is in Belgium.

 

Good day Deacs (Michael),

Pte John Irving Black, 15th Bn Canadian Infantry, who is buried in Whitehaven Cemetery was a WW1 casualty. He was the husband of Annie Black of Toronto, Canada. Periodically, some of his relatives kinfolk come over to the UK and lay a poppy wreath and flowers at this family grave. He has certainly not been forgotten. I have photographs of this headstone with a poppy wreath tied to it.

I assume you have probably also deduced, Private John Irving Black was one of two sons of Robert and Mary Black from Cleator Moor, Cumberland to lose their lives in the war. The other was Private James Black, also 15th Bn Canadian Infantry (died 10/10/1916). Pte James Black is buried at Puchervilliers British Cemetery, France (Somme). He was the husband of Mrs Violet Black, whose wartime address is given as Ambleside.

Being natives of Cleator Moor these two are listed on the Cleator Moor 'Roll of Honour'. The two Black brothers are also listed on the St John's Parish Church, Cleator Moor War Memorial which I believe you have visited.

I am not exactly sure of the reason whey Private John Irving Black was buried at Whitehaven Cemetery rather than at St John's, Cleator Moor Churchyard. Looking back at so many years afterwards one might have thought a burial in his hometown of Cleator Moor would have been the preferred choice of his family at the time. Perhaps if we knew more about the family circumstances the reason for the final burial place in Whitehaven Cemetery would be obvious.

As you have already discovered, Private John Irving Black died of wounds in hospital in the south of England. If he had died over on the Western Front he would have been buried in one of the cemeteries over there. Ypres, the dear old 'Wipers' of the time of our forefathers who were over there, is in Belgium.

Thanks Ritsonvaljos that is brilliant cheers.

Yes that is strange why was a Cleator Moor lad buried in Whitehaven cemetery there has to be a connection to Whitehaven and his family somewhere down the line.

Regards Michael.

 

This post mainly covers aspects of WW1 research, but may be of wider general interest for WW2 researchers.

Sometimes the burial locations of WW1 and WW2 casualties, and also the memorials they are (or are not) commemorated can seem puzzling many years later. For example, there is the name of Lt C.E.L. Blair, M.C. on the photograph of the St John's Parish, Cleator Moor memorial you have posted (two names below that of Pte John I. Black).

Exactly why Lt. Blair is listed on the Cleator Moor memorial is difficult to confirm. I get the impression it is because of his link to working as an engineer in the local mines. Lt. Blair is listed on the St Bees memorial (where the family lived). But, he is not listed on the Harrington memorial (where the family started out). Yet, his brother (Cpl. R.C.F. Blair) who also died in WW1 is buried at Harrington St Mary's Churchyard and is listed on the Harrington memorial but he does not seem to be on the St Bees village memorial.

Their more famous cousin who also died in WW1, Captain R.C.R. Blair, DSO, EM was born and baptised at Harrington. Yet, Captain Blair is not listed on the Harrington memorial .... but he is listed on the St Nicholas' Parish Memorial, Whitehaven and the Hensingham War Memorial.
--------------------

Private John Irving Black

Attached is another photograph of the headstone of Pte John Irving Black, 15th Canadian Infantry in Whitehaven Cemetery. This photograph from my 'Cleator Moor' archive shows the poppy wreath and dedication the family had placed at the grave. He may rest half a world away from his closest kinfolk, but the years, the miles and a wide ocean have proved no obstacle to his remembrance. This photograph was taken in March 2009.

The headstone reads as follows:

In Loving Memory Of
John I. Black
Canadians
Beloved husband of
ANNIE BLACK,
Wounded at the 3rd Battle of Ypres,
June 2nd 1916

Died at Shorncliffe Hospital, Kent
June 26th 1917, Aged 29 years

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

"I am the Resurrection and the Life."

 

If i am not mistaken this chap who served with the Canadians is remembered next to John's headstone in Whitehaven.

Lance Corporal FISHER,. GRAHAM

451843, 58th Bn., Canadian Infantry (Central Ontario Regiment)
who died age 20
on 02 October 1916
Son of Fisher and Janet Graham, of 4, Michael St., Whitehaven.
Remembered with honour
WHITEHAVEN CEMETERY