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15 Tank Transporter Coy RASC Vehicle Nos

Discussion in 'Vehicle Names and Census Numbers' started by Tom OBrien, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Hi,

    In the 1944 war diary of the above unit there is a series of monthly PART X ORDER Vehicle & Casualty Return forms which detail Diamond T numbers, and some motor cycle numbers as well. If anyone is interested I'll try to post them here as I go through it, but they will also be on the post on the RASC section.

    One question has come up though, was there any noticeable difference between a Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer Model 980 or Model 981? The returns differentiate between the two and I wondered if anyone would care if I just called them a Diamond T.

    Cheers

    Tom
     
  2. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for those especially the Diamond T's as I have just bought the Merit 1/35th scale 980 kit.

    As to the differences as far as I know the 980 was the hard cab and the 981 was the soft top.

    980 photo courtesy HMVF and the 981 courtesy Chris "Toadman" Hughes.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Not so, the cab design had no effect on the model number. Both had winches, but the 980 could only winch from the rear; 981 had an arrangement to pay out the cable and winch from the front as well. You can tell a 981 by the hole in the front bumper with rollers for the winch cable. The one on the left above is a 981.

    Chris
     
  4. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Thanks for point that out about the winch. So were there 980's and 981's with hard and soft cabs?

    cheers

    Kevin
     
  5. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    Both types firstly appeared with hard tops, later in the war the soft top was introduced for many US produced types. So yes both the 980 & 981 were produced in both hard and soft tops.
     
  6. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    The following gleaned from 'Wheels and Tracks' Number 54. A generally reliable source which quotes contract numbers.

    Up to 1943 UK received 702 Diamond T 980 and 133 Diamond T 981. Later 1000 Diamond T 980 were delivered to UK. So it seems that Diamond T 981 was fairly rare and all in UK service would be hard top cabs.

    It is true of course that the distinction was in the winch arrangements not the cab. 981 was designated 'Recovery' while 980 was 'Transporter'.

    Mike
     
  7. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Details from the first return for June 44:

    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 14 Date: 3rd June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 13, 31st May 44.

    Received from 29 V.R.D., Breeden [MOB/REP/358/3GP/410/BRE/413 d/31st May 44]

    H.5292407 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981

    Transferred to M. of S.A.A.W. Liverpool [21 Cmd W/Shops REME/2008/29/4/1 d/1st June 44]

    H.5109833 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765334 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.777728 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.5109762 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765303 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.777729 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.777699 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765293 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765327 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.777743 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.5292358 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
     
  8. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    Hi Mike, have been having a look at a website for RASC/RCT/RLC vets, in the photo albums are a fair few soft top diamond Ts a number of these soft tops are 981 so I think Bart was a bit out in his article. In fact in his issue 54 article at the foot of page 28 is a soft top 981 at Ruddington.
    TED
     
  9. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Ted,

    Possibly the later, Lend Lease, contracts did not specify a type. We just accepted what the US gave us from a common pool. In earlier direct purchase contracts we could specify.

    A quick sum suggests that in the earlier deliveries there would be one 981 to each section of six. Is that too logical?

    Mike
     
  10. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    In the article there is an MoS S/M2147 which was chronologically the later and that cannot be positively matched to any of the US production contracts. Then to muddy the water further in 1944 100 of an unspecified standard were transfered directly from the US Army to ours they were H5899529 -628, We used to visit Bart and his family when we were stationed in Germany , Oh to be able to pick the phone up and speak to him- he would be straight into the filing cabinets.
     
  11. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Probably little help in this matter but what happened to the RASC records that were held at Beverley. I went once to the museum when it was in the depot/barracks and several times to look in the archives when it was privatised and housed in a brewery (disused).

    Mike
     
  12. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hello Ted,

    I have found the following:-

    H777453 - H777461 9 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2059
    H777475 - H777764 290 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2059
    H4765260 - H4765354 95 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2059
    H5109701 - H5109860 160 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2147
    H5292229 - H5292728 500 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2147
    H5587301 - H5587500 200 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2147
    H5587501 - H5587700 200 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2147
    H5899529 - H5899628 100 Tractor 6 x 4 Ex US Forces
    X5899629 - X5899728 100 24 wheel 40 ton Trailer Ex US Forces
    H6164857 - H6164996 140 Tractor 6 x 4 for 40 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2147

    I have a load, excuse pun, of trailer numbers too.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  13. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 14 Date: 3rd June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 13, 31st May 44.

    Received from 29 V.R.D., RAOC, Breeden [MOB/REP/358/3GP/410/BRE/413 d/31st May 44]

    H.5292407 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981

    Transferred to M. of S.A.A.W. Liverpool [21 Cmd W/Shops REME/2008/29/4/1 d/1st June 44]

    H.5109833 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765334 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.777728 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.5109762 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765303 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.777729 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.777699 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765293 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4765327 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.777743 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.5292358 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980


    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 15 Date: 3rd June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 14, 3rd June 44.

    Received from 20 V.R.D., RAOC, Aldershot [ALB/CON/REP/32]

    H.5292654 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981
    H.5292656 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981


    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 16 Date: 8th June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 15, 3rd June 44.

    Received from No.1 V.R.D., RAOC, Laleham, Middsx. [O.C. No.9 (Chilwell) M.T. Group LHM/CON/REP/226 d 6.6.44.

    H.4245726 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245740 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245770 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245775 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245793 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245794 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245796 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4245797 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4246103 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4246098 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980
    H.4246114 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 980

    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 17 Date: 10th June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 16, 8th June 44.

    Transferred to R.V.P., Malta Barracks, Aldershot, Land Assault Dev Wing.

    X.1246887 Dyson Mark 1 40 ton 24 whld Trailer for Tptr.
    [Declared BLR by CRASC, 2 Tank Tptr Coln RASC.]

    Received from 34 V.R.D., RAOC, Tadmarden.

    C.5235333 Matchless 41G3L Solo Motor Cycle 350cc.
    C.1441372 Matchless 41G3L Solo Motor Cycle 350cc.




    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 18 Date: 13th June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 17, 10th June 44.

    Transferred to R.V.P., Malta Barracks, Aldershot, Land Assault Dev Wing.

    H.4765316 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981

    [Declared BLR by CRASC, 2 Tank Tptr Coln RASC.]

    Transferred to REME Command Workshops, Guildford after accidents.

    C.5480630 Matchless 41G3L Solo Motor Cycle 350cc.
    C.5480737 Matchless 41G3L Solo Motor Cycle 350cc.





    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 19 Date: 16th June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 18, 13th June 44.

    Received from 29 V.R.D., RAOC, Breeden, Nr. Derby [Class 1A]
    [MOB/REP/378/3GP/630/BRE/618 d/15th June 44]

    H.5587389 Diamond T Tractor 6x4 for 40 ton Trailer, Model 981








    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 20 Date: 17th June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 19, 16th June 44.

    Received from 2 Tank Tptr Coln R.A.S.C. [Authority: ST 2nd Army, verbal]

    C.5481787 Matchless 41G3L Solo Motor Cycle 350cc.
    C.1451219 Matchless 41G3L Solo Motor Cycle 350cc.





    PART X ORDER: Vehicle & Artillery Casualty Returns for June 1944

    Part X Order No. 21 Date: 27th June 44. Previous Part X Order: No. 20, 17th June 44.

    Received from 11 V.R.D., R.A.O.C, Lancaster. [Class 1] [Authority: LAN/113]

    X.4661711 Dyson Mark 11 40 ton 24 whld Trailer for Transporter.
     
  14. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Dyson Trailers

    X1246487 - X1246536 50 24 wheel 40 ton transporter contract. T4473
    X1246813 - X1246887 75 24 wheel 40 ton transporter contract. T5106
    X4660131 - X4660131 1 24 wheel 40 ton transporter contract. T1524
    X4661650 - X4661699 50 24 wheel 40 ton transporter contract. T11444
    X4661700 - X4661774 75 24 wheel 40 ton transporter contract. T11286
    X6227801 - X6228300 500 24 wheel 40 ton transporter contract. SM2148

    Thanks for the updates Tom.

    cheers

    Kevin
     
  15. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    Some of you may be familiar with a book AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER-- The Pearson's of Liverpool story.
    For those not familiar Pearsons assembled a large number of vehicles shipped as PKD in crates from the USA . On page 16 is a picture of H5292491 it is a soft top but whether a 980 or 981 cannot be determined from the view, on page 17 there is a full page picture of H5292554 this is a soft top again but its clearly a 981. Both these numbers are in one of Kevin's blocks for S/M 2147. The text accompanying page 17 also states from S/M 2147 and quotes the same block of 500 numbers as Kevin.It further states its one of 133 981s in that contract. From Tom's part X orders we can see some more from that block ; However again the water is muddied as the book's text says S/M2147 was covered by QMC/Defence Aid ContractDA-W398-QM4 But Bart's notes state this contract was satisfied in 1941 & 42 which predates the soft top.
    Putting the US contract number confusion to one side The pictures in Pearson's book dated sept 1943
    show that soft tops were in S/M 2147 and 981s were amongst them. Blimey my brain is starting to hurt- Mike tell my the secret of spending many many hours involved in such research? regards
    TED
     
  16. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Ted,

    Don't ask me. I've been mad as a hatter for years.

    Mike
     
  17. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    What we know.

    UK placed an initial contract for 835 Diamond T to their own specification. 702 were 980 and 133 were 981. All closed cab. A second order was placed for 1000 980. All but 35 delivered in 1941/42.

    Canada ordered 677 Diamond T 980. All closed cab and delivered in 1942.

    Then the waters are muddy. When the US introduced Lend Lease they placed the orders and decided who got what. We know what was ordered and delivered but not exactly what UK received.

    Contract ORD 271 2536.1447 ordered. Unspecified numbers of 980 and 981. Nearly all delivered in 1942.
    Contract ORD 271 4460. All delivered in 1944. 480 X Diamond T 980 closed cab. 186 X Diamond T 980 open cab. 1080 X Diamond T 981 open cab.
    Contract ORD 11 022 285. All delivered 1945. 705 X Diamond T 981 open cab.
    Contract ORD 11 022 2329. 138 X Diamond T 981 open cab. All delivered 1945.

    A total of 1325 British Diamond T 980 and 981 were sent direct to overseas destinations but eventually 200 came back from the Middle East. 100 transferred from US Army.

    Eventually then only model 981 with open cab were being produced.

    Mike
     
  18. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    I have sent a message to Wally Dugan to see what he can tell us- he was the curator at Beverly
    TED
     
  19. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    I appear to have missed a block.

    H6227061 - H6227560 500 Tractor 6 x 4 for 10 ton Transporter Trailer cont. SM2147

    Apologies I was just looking for the 40 ton trailer tractors and missed the block for the 500 10 ton trailers.

    cheers

    Kevin
     
  20. ted angus

    ted angus Senior Member

    Kevin its easily done these days but I am confused !!! are these 10 ton trailers or tractor 6x4 ??

    reply from Wally He has given me the same info as you previously posted for S/Ms 2059 & 2147
    regards TED
     

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