1437348 Walter Reuben SMITH, RA

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Lindsay1968, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    Casualty Details | CWGC

    The Last soldier on my war memorial. I've found plenty on his life and previous service in the army (underage WW1) and Marines, thanks to the lovely community on here. But I can find nothing about his service in WW2 or more especially HOW HE DIED. Other than his service number and that he was a Bombardier in the 78th AA Royal Artillery (thanks again to the good folk on here). He died on 6th April 1941, but research has revealed no further information. Can anyone help?
    Son of Harry and Laura Smith (or Harvey depending which record you go from)
    DOB March 1901
    Commemorated Norwich Cemetery.
    But HOW?????
    Thanks for any help anyone can give to answer the big question!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2020
  2. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    The British Army Roll of Honour 1939-1945 just states that he died in the UK Theatre of War.

    In the Royal Artillery Tracer Cards on ancestry Walter does not have a card, but two men with close numbers do:

    1437346 REID Joseph Jan (Ian ?)
    joined 10 Nov 1938.
    Posted from S/L to 212 LAA Reg R.A. 29 Dec 1941
    Y list (E) release 2 Oct 1945
    relegated Z (T) Res 3 Jan 1946

    1437350 PUDDY John Douglas
    enlisted 9 Dec 1938
    to 247/79th AA Bde RA TA
    Y List E 12 Jul 1945
    Class Z (T) Res 6 Sep 1945

    This tells us that he was a late 1938 recruit, maybe also to the Territorial Army, which at that time was expanding. If TA he should have been mobilised Aug/Sep 1939 and will probably not appear on the civillian 1939 Register.

    His death certificate will be the ultimate place to find out circumstances of his death, but I can't see any that are obvious to the Norwich area. In some circumstances, esp if an accident there may have been an inquest, which could have been reported in the paper local to where it happened & his death may also show in the Norwich press.

    I am aware that his widow applied for administration of his estate, maybe the admin papers show where he died & that will narrow the search for a death cert. It would cost £ 1.50 from here:
    Find a will | GOV.UK

    Have you tried contacting the online trees on family history sites such as ancestry ?

    If this hasn't already been tried findmypast have RA casualty cards for 1939-1947 & RA attestations to 1942.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Casualty list has him as 'Died' as opposed to 'Accidentally killed' or 'Died as a result of accident', Casualty Card has no additional information other than his unit as 6 HAA Practice Camp.
     
  4. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    Tony 56 and Travers1940 - thank you! I've always said that if something is there to be found, one of you guys on here will sniff it out. Thank you both for this info - much of which is new to me and gives me SOMETHING to write at least!
     
  5. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    So we know he was 40 when he died. 6HAA (not sure what the practice camp bit is) seem to be in England at that time, well before going to the Far East. And he was buried on home soil so he must have been here.... Probate calendar says he died "on war service". IS there anything in that language that suggests anything else?
     
  6. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    His age of 36/37 in late 1938 could also fit with a TA enlistment. I don't have stats for the max age of enlistment into the interwar regular army, but in 1914 it was 37.

    I think "died on war service" appears on probates for many of those who died in service in WW2. It was used for four overseas casualties I have researched, and they were all on overseas service & ranged from an RAF pilot killed in a crash in East Africa to an army pow who drowned on one of the Japanese hell ships.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  7. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    I just keep going round and round! I can't even find anything for 6HAA Practice camp! So if you were me what would you write for his death?
     
  8. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    No. 6 Practice Camp was at Bude, Cornwall. I wonder if the HAA refers to the Practice Camp rather than being read as 6th HAA Regt.

    RA 1939-45 Practice Camps

    Tim
     
  9. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    Died of meningitis at Devonport.

    Been a bit of time since I had a game of where's Wally.

    Did the normal sweep of last name, first name quarter on FreeBMD for England/Wales -Zilch
    repeated with combinations of first/second names - zilch
    Tried for death in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Isle of Man with all combinations above - zilch

    Out of completeness checked Army overseas deaths - zilch

    Decided to try blunt instrument - GRO Index Search - 1941, Death, Smith, Male, Age40+/- 1 year - came back with 21 names - last on list Wallie Smith at Plymouth.

    First name is unusual for what is normally a accurate and fussy legal register. However a few weeks after his death date Plymouth had the sustained blitz which destroyed some records and gave many casualties for the registry office to handle. So possible that original record Walter Reuben destroyed and Wallie record re-entered from fragments/memory.

    Worth a punt - Bingo - your man.

    Death Register attached.

    Ross
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    Easy to see how if taken ill at No 6 HAA Practice Camp at Bude, he would have been treated at military hospital in Plymouth. I can't find any reference to which units were at NO 6 practice camp, so I guess we can't be sure wether he was still with 78th HAA at the time, with another unit, or even on the camp staff.

    Looking at 78th AA, as penciled on his attestation, it seems he would probably have joined this unit at Norwich, where from 1st Nov 1938 they were known as 78th (1st East Anglian) Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA. (Retitled as 78th HAA on 1 June 1940.)
    In Nov 1938 78th AA had the following batteries:
    RHQ at All Saints Green, Norwich
    • 243rd (2nd Norfolk) AA Bty at Norwich
    • 244th (3rd Norfolk) AA Bty at Norwich
    • 245th (1st Norfolk) AA Bty at Artillery Square, Great Yarmouth
    • 409th (Suffolk) AA Bty at Lowestoft
    1st Norfolk Artillery Volunteers - Wikipedia
     
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  11. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    Ross!!! Oh, my wordy! I am speechless, completely in awe. I have no words. I can't thank you enough. It has become so important to me to tell everyone's story, to do justice to everyone and not to leave any loose ends that I've become a bit obsessed with this.
    Thank you a million times!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2020
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  12. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    So not only do I have how he died but I'll be able to write something about his war service as well. Thank you so much for doing this for me. That's BRILLIANT!
     
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  13. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Brilliant work Ross.
     
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  14. Lindsay1968

    Lindsay1968 Member

    Hi Guys, I thought you might like to see this message from Walter Smith's granddaughter who made contact with me tonight. For background, the Poppy Trail has been up in our village for two weeks. We featured in the Eastern evening News and BBC Look east as well as ITV Anglia News. The books were delivered to 3,300 homes in Old Catton this week. This is what she said with a special mention to you, RAF Commands!
    Good Evening Lindsay, I hope you don’t mind me messaging you. I moved back to Old Catton last year, and I also lived here as a child with my parents years ago. Having a day off work today and busy doing housework, I took a moment and picked up my copy of Old Catton Remembers that had been posted through my door, and started to flick through it. A name made me halt in my tracks; Walter Reuben Smith. He is my Grandfather on my Dad’s side. My Dad is Norman Walter. All I knew of my Grandfather was that he passed of meningitis when my Dad was young, and knew at some point they lived on George Hill. And I only have one photo of Walter. I have found it very emotional reading about him today, but I thank you for the beautiful book and I would like to say a special thank you to Ross, who ‘found’ Walter, as without your book and research I would not know some of these things about his life which I have learnt today. I feel very emotional, much closer to him and incredibly proud of him. I feel very privileged that you have given me the opportunity to learn more about him. I haven’t been able to stop thinking of Walter, and I still feel very emotional. I so wish my Dad was still alive to see the wonderful tribute to him. He would have loved it. Also the fact you got Old Catton Remembers and the Poppy Trail mentioned on the T.V.! You have obviously done a lot of work and are very dedicated. Walter certainly was a hero wasn’t he. I think there was possibly information that you have found which even my Dad did not know, as I think previous generations did not necessarily talk about certain subjects. I am so glad you didn’t just ‘accept’, and for all your perseverance I will be forever grateful. I now feel I know my Grandfather a little bit more. I will treasure the tribute booklet you published. My daughters and I have done nothing but talk about Walter, and your description of Walter sounds very much like my Dad, although my Dad has blue eyes. Thank you once again from the bottom of my heart, I am incredibly emotional as I write this. I will try to send you a copy of the photo. I can remember my Dad telling me it was a copy of a photo that was in the newspaper (EEN or EDP) many many years ago. Thank you again for a beautiful book and putting in so much time and effort to create it.

    The village FB page has exploded with positivity and thoughts on remembrance this week. They have really united in a shared remembrance experience despite covid keeping us apart. But this is the icing on the cake for me. Thank you everyone, and thank you Ross for being tenacious!!
     
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