Discussion in '1940' started by rewdco, Jan 2, 2012.
1 DIV carrier:
Post #244 really is a quality image. It's a Scout Carrier displaying the Divisional Cavalry AoS so 13th/18th Royal Hussars in this case.
Here are two more original photos of that carrier from my collection with info on the back [ in German ]. 14th May 1940. click on photo to enlarge.
info on the back of carrier photo. click on photo to enlarge.
Most interesting Keith. I hadn't realised that the crew were still there. I feel a bit guilty for enthusing over the image now.
There are only two 13th/18th Hussars casualties listed on CWGC for the early part of the campaign and both are on the Dunkirk Memorial.
012 WILLIAMS J 7580447 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 14/05/1940 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
013 WOODARD WJ 546492 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 12/05/1940 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
I'll have another try at reading the location given on the reverse.
Does Andy have the War Diary ? It might be possible to confirm the crew who are sadly probably buried as unidentified.
The Carrier was lost around 12.15 with 6 men missing after charging German positions. I'm uploading the diary page
From WO 167/453 13/18 Royal Hussars War Diary
I'm very tempted to think that the location is the Weertsedreef - St Joris Weert is the Flemish name.
st joris weert kluis - Google Maps
The answer is written on the back of Keith's foto: Hamme-Mille
My instinct says the photo was taken along the Chaussée de Namur between the villages of Hamme-Mille and Nodebais. I have to go and check one of these days. Note the white lines on the trees typical for Belgian main roads back then.
Thanks Dirk, I struggled with the Sütterlin but it's obvious now that you've mentioned it. It's a puzzle that the loss of a carrier with at least two dead doesn't seem to be mentioned in the diaries and that the bodies weren't identified (or that the identities were later lost).
Are there any unidentified CWGC graves around Hamme-Mille ? Perhaps consolidated in Oud-Heverlee or even Leopoldsburg.
If you can identify the location, it would be worth researching the loss further.
Just incase anyone was wondering I left the original posts in place and copied the above into a new thread.
I will attempt to copy the 13/18 Hussars Missing Men file this Saturday to see if we can ID the dead soldier. I suspect it is Cpl Williams.
CWGC :: Certificate
This is the rank on his arm, may help to ID him. click image to enlarge.
It looks like three stripes to me, so that must be Sjt Woodard. That contradicts the diary date. I mentioned to Rich that the history doesn't mention any casualties before 14 May (2 carriers and 8 men, from memory))
Is anything visible on the other photo, Keith?
Here are the two photos of his rank. click image to enlarge photos. I think the fold in his uniform on the first photo could hide one of the rank stripes as on the 2nd photo it looks like three stripes [Sgt].
Going back over my earlier posts and following off-forum discussions with Idler and Dirk, it looks as if I was too hasty with my reading of the diary and expectation that the location was Sint-Joris-Weert. It certainly seems that the location will be in the area of Hamme-Mille.
William Woodard held the rank of Lance-Serjeant and thus certainly wore three stripes.
WOODARD, WILLIAM JAMES
Initials: W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Serjeant
Regiment/Service: Royal Armoured Corps
Unit Text: 13th/18th Royal Hussars
Date of Death: 12/05/1940
Service No: 546492
Additional information: Son of Henry James Woodard and Anne Woodard; husband of R. E. Woodard, of Kentish Town, London.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Column 3.
Memorial: DUNKIRK MEMORIAL
The date of 12th May could be a mistake and is well within the margins found in 1940 commemorations. It is notable that no sources yet found refer to any casualties with the unit prior to 14th May.
Although two serjeants in a carrier crew wouldn't be usual, we know that the passengers comprised at least two crews. It could be that Corporal Williams was 'acting unpaid' Serjeant in which case he would have worn the stripes but as the rank would not have been entered in his pay book, it wouldn't appear on the CWGC roll of honour.
I look forward to seeing the 'missing men' record.
Is there any way of checking if the 'unknowns' in the two large consolidation cemeteries in the east of Belgium include 13th/18th Hussars from 1940 ?
So far just this:
Thats all there is - anymore suggestion re files at Kew just shout chaps.
Hey Drew. Somebody told me it could be a tank from the 13/18 Hussar’s here on this image. Is it possible?
ein von Pak außer
Gefecht gesetzter mgl.
mgl. ist die Abkürzung von: möglich/e/er oder möglicherweise
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