13th/18th Royal Hussars Carrier at Hamme-Mille

Discussion in '1940' started by rewdco, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    1 DIV carrier:

    [​IMG]

    Jan
     
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Post #244 really is a quality image. It's a Scout Carrier displaying the Divisional Cavalry AoS so 13th/18th Royal Hussars in this case.
     
  3. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Here are two more original photos of that carrier from my collection with info on the back [ in German ]. 14th May 1940. click on photo to enlarge.
    Keith
    bren carrier scout 1940 14 may r.jpg bren carrier scout 1940 r.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  4. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    bren carrier scout back.jpg info on the back of carrier photo. click on photo to enlarge.
    Keith.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Most interesting Keith. I hadn't realised that the crew were still there. I feel a bit guilty for enthusing over the image now.

    There are only two 13th/18th Hussars casualties listed on CWGC for the early part of the campaign and both are on the Dunkirk Memorial.

    012 WILLIAMS J 7580447 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 14/05/1940 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    COLUMN 3.
    013 WOODARD WJ 546492 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 12/05/1940 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    COLUMN 3.

    I'll have another try at reading the location given on the reverse.

    Does Andy have the War Diary ? It might be possible to confirm the crew who are sadly probably buried as unidentified.
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The Carrier was lost around 12.15 with 6 men missing after charging German positions. I'm uploading the diary page :)
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    From WO 167/453 13/18 Royal Hussars War Diary
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

  9. Dirk

    Dirk Member

    The answer is written on the back of Keith's foto: Hamme-Mille
    My instinct says the photo was taken along the Chaussée de Namur between the villages of Hamme-Mille and Nodebais. I have to go and check one of these days. Note the white lines on the trees typical for Belgian main roads back then.

    Dirk
     
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks Dirk, I struggled with the Sütterlin but it's obvious now that you've mentioned it. It's a puzzle that the loss of a carrier with at least two dead doesn't seem to be mentioned in the diaries and that the bodies weren't identified (or that the identities were later lost).

    Are there any unidentified CWGC graves around Hamme-Mille ? Perhaps consolidated in Oud-Heverlee or even Leopoldsburg.

    If you can identify the location, it would be worth researching the loss further.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Just incase anyone was wondering I left the original posts in place and copied the above into a new thread.

    I will attempt to copy the 13/18 Hussars Missing Men file this Saturday to see if we can ID the dead soldier. I suspect it is Cpl Williams.

    CWGC :: Certificate :poppy:
     
  12. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    carrier 1940.jpg This is the rank on his arm, may help to ID him. click image to enlarge.
    Keith
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It looks like three stripes to me, so that must be Sjt Woodard. That contradicts the diary date. I mentioned to Rich that the history doesn't mention any casualties before 14 May (2 carriers and 8 men, from memory))

    Is anything visible on the other photo, Keith?
     
  14. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    carrier 1940 bef rank .jpg carrier 1940 bef rank  RIP.jpg Here are the two photos of his rank. click image to enlarge photos. I think the fold in his uniform on the first photo could hide one of the rank stripes as on the 2nd photo it looks like three stripes [Sgt].
    Keith
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Going back over my earlier posts and following off-forum discussions with Idler and Dirk, it looks as if I was too hasty with my reading of the diary and expectation that the location was Sint-Joris-Weert. It certainly seems that the location will be in the area of Hamme-Mille.

    William Woodard held the rank of Lance-Serjeant and thus certainly wore three stripes.

    :poppy:WOODARD, WILLIAM JAMES
    Initials: W J
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Lance Serjeant
    Regiment/Service: Royal Armoured Corps
    Unit Text: 13th/18th Royal Hussars
    Age: 32
    Date of Death: 12/05/1940
    Service No: 546492
    Additional information: Son of Henry James Woodard and Anne Woodard; husband of R. E. Woodard, of Kentish Town, London.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Column 3.
    Memorial: DUNKIRK MEMORIAL

    The date of 12th May could be a mistake and is well within the margins found in 1940 commemorations. It is notable that no sources yet found refer to any casualties with the unit prior to 14th May.

    Although two serjeants in a carrier crew wouldn't be usual, we know that the passengers comprised at least two crews. It could be that Corporal Williams was 'acting unpaid' Serjeant in which case he would have worn the stripes but as the rank would not have been entered in his pay book, it wouldn't appear on the CWGC roll of honour.

    I look forward to seeing the 'missing men' record.

    Is there any way of checking if the 'unknowns' in the two large consolidation cemeteries in the east of Belgium include 13th/18th Hussars from 1940 ?
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    So far just this:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thats all there is - anymore suggestion re files at Kew just shout chaps.
     
  19. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Hey Drew. Somebody told me it could be a tank from the 13/18 Hussar’s here on this image. Is it possible?
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachments/nw-europe/69965d1323687905-alpen-alpon-germany-op-%84blockbuster%93-%84veritable%93-feb-march-1945-b_015535-jpg
     
  20. Uwe Sewing

    Uwe Sewing Member

    Left side:
    Belgien
    mgl. Panzerspähwagen
    bei Hammer-Mille
    14.Mai 1940

    right side:
    Belgien
    ein von Pak außer
    Gefecht gesetzter mgl.
    Panzerspähwagen
    bei Hammer-Mille
    14.Mai 1940

    mgl. ist die Abkürzung von: möglich/e/er oder möglicherweise


    Uwe
     

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