Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by gerthebear, Oct 1, 2012.
I am looking to find as much info regarding the 133rd during ww2 as my father served with them..
What years was he with them?
The war diaries will be at Kew.
Hello and welcome. Here are all the diary's held at Kew-drop me a PM if you would like me to copy any for you or click the red link below:
WO 166/1545 133 Field Regiment 1939 Sept.- 1941 Dec.
WO 166/7030 133 Regiment. 1942 Jan.- Dec.
WO 166/11291 133 Field Regiment 1943 Jan.-Dec.
WO 171/993 133 Regiment 1944 Jan.- Dec.
WO 171/4844 133 Regiment 1945 Jan., Feb.
WO 171/4845 133 Regiment 1945 Mar.- Dec.
WO 171/9080 133 Regiment 1946 Jan.- Apr.
Here is a bit of a summary-
RA 1939-45 133 Fld Rgt
133rd Field were part of 53rd Welsh div for the whole of WW2 - based in UK until late June '44 when they went to Normandy and then took part in the Falaise battle and the Battle of the Bulge and Operation veritable.
Here is a litte something more:
133rd Field Regiment, R.A. (T.A.)
331st (Momouth) Bty: Griffithstown
332nd (Radnor) Bty: Knighton, Radnor
The regiment served with 53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division from the start until the end of the war. It left the United Kingdom by sea on 21 June 1944 and arrived in Northwest Europe on 27 June.
497th Battery was formed in the regiment on 8 February 1941 at Portadown. The regiment added (Welsh) to its title on 17 February 1942.
I realise that this thread is a little old but hope it is ok to pick up on it again.
My grandfather, Alfred Henry Cartwright (b.1910), prior to the start of the war was a member of the 332nd Radnor battery, most likely E Troop, the regiment at that point being, as I understand, a TA regiment. They were mobilised on the 1st of September 1939 and in April 1940 transferred, as part of the 53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division, to Portadown in Northern Ireland, where they remained until November 1941. In March 1942, after having returned to Monmouth, the Radnor Battery moved to Lynsted in Kent.
At this point the trail of my grandfather's war runs cold. Although the Radnor Battery was to go on and land in France on 26th of June, 1944, my Grandfather was not with them. Rather at some point he arrived and served in North Africa, through Italy and ended the war stationed near Trieste. At some point he may have been a dispatch rider and did become a Battery Sergeant Major (though possibly prior to active service).
My current thoughts are that he transferred to another RA Regiment, one possibility for example being the 132nd (Welsh) Field Regiment, whose war, through Tunisia, Sicily and Italy would seem to match the limited information I have (however, as part of the 78th Infantry Division they would have ended the war in Austria which does not match my grandfather's statement that he was in Trieste at the end of the war).
My apologies for the potted history however, as I said above, the trail has run cold and unfortunately I do not have his service number (nor day/month of birth). I was wondering if anyone could advise how to go about tracking down his service number, as a first step to exploring in more detail my grandfather's war service and experience.
According to my information(HQ 53 (Welsh) Division War Diaries) 133 Field Regiment were in the Wilhelmsburg area of the Hamburg Docklands on VE Day till the whole Division moved south to the Ruhr in June 1945.
Did he get married during the war ?
His Army number might be on Marriage certicate if he did.
Can you not track him down on one of the family history websites & get his birth certificate to get his DoB ?
Since Cadres were continually taken from across the Division it is certainly possible he was posted elsewhere.
The privately published For Gunner's Sake by LJ Burns covers some of the period you mention, certainly worth tracking down - if you PM me your email addy I'll try and send you some relevant excerpts.
Chris, I have found through Ancestry.co.uk an Alfred Henry Cartwright born in Monmouthshire, Wales. There are two family trees on the website that he is attached to. One tree gives him a DOB of 11th Oct 1909. Birth registered in the District of Bedwellty (Vol 11a Page 162).
The Welsh Census for 1911 reveals his parents were a George Henry Cartwright (b. 1873) & his mother is a Sarah Ann Langley (b. 1873).
One of the trees states his death took place in Portadown, Northern Ireland, but doesn't state the year. His spouse was a Gladys Louisa Smith and they appear to have had one child (name & sex of child withheld on the tree). He married Gladys Jun 1933 in the Registration District Leominster in the county Herefordshire, England.
Hope this is your relative. Cheers - Maria
The best place to inspect RA WW2 War Diaries is not Kew but the Clavell Library in Woolwich (part of the Firepower! museum). It's a few minutes walk form Woolwich station on the DLR (much closer than NA is to Kew station!).
Clavell has most RA WW2 war diaries. Clavell has advantages over Kew, the turnround time for retrieving items is a few minutes not 30 plus after searching the index. The librarian is well informed on RA matters and able to help explain what you are reading, he can often quickly provide related information such as regt and formation histories and all manner of artillery related materia. The museum adds further colour to your research.
The downside is you need to book in advance because seating is limited and since it is not funded by the taxpayer there is a fee if you are not a member. Visiting Clavell is far better than going to Kew or paying for someone to research for you there.
Does the Firepower Museum have copies of all the WW2 artillery war diaries then?
I don't think anyone has copies of all War Diaries, some were lost before reaching UK.
Basically Clavell holds the regimental copy of RA War Diaries (I don't know if other regiments followed this practice). Therefore if it is at Kew it should also be at Woolwich. If in doubt ring up and ask. I found my father's regts' in his handwriting at Woolwich 35 yrs ago (while the libary was still in the old academy and you could search the WD shelves yourself.
I didn't realise they had everything (RA Diaries) that is available at Kew. I only ask as I'm starting to wonder what to do with all of my BEF war diaries as I get closer to collecting all 1500 of them. I only have a few battery files to collect now to complete all the BEF RA diaries.
As I understand it in WW2 it was RA policy that units sent copies of their War Diaries to Woolwich as well as the official War Office distribution. I don't know if this was the case in WW1 and don't know if any other regts did it in WW2.
Two excellent books on 133 Field Regiment are about... but both (curiously) focus on 497 Battery,
For Gunners' Sake by LJ Burns
Sheldrake by Richard Hughes - also covering 1940
Both are very good, Major Hughes gives a slightly higher understanding and Les Burns rounds off the Gunner side of things.
This is where I first read the war diary of my Dad's Regiment. You can't use a camera to photograph every page for free as you can at Kew, but have to pay for someone to make a copy of every page.
I wanted to thank everyone for their very kind advice and help in reply to my post earlier in the year. I have not as yet managed to track down by Grandfather's service number but am closing in. During the summer I visited the Powys County archive in Llandrindod Wells which holds the papers of the now disbanded Radnor Battery Association. These are contained in about five folders of clippings, photographs, members books, annual publications etc.
I took quite a few photographs which I have put on to Flickr
Separate names with a comma.