11th (E.A.) Divisional Recce Regiment (Kenya Armoured Car Regiment)

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by RobG64, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here are a few more East African and Southern Rhodesian armoured units:

    The Southern Rhodesia Armoured Car Regiment

    Raised
    February 1941

    The regiment was formed from the Southern Rhodesian Reconnaissance Unit, part of 2nd Battalion, The Rhodesia Regiment. It left Southern Rhodesia in November 1941 for peace-keeping operations in Abyssinia and other areas of Italian East Africa after Italy’s surrender. It was located throughout North Kenya, the Sudan, Abyssinia and Eritrea. It was equipped with Marmon-Herrington Armoured Cars. It transferred to the Middle East in 1942 and left its equipment for the 3rd (East Africa) Reconnaissance Regiment.

    It was on the strength of the South African Forces on 22 October 1942. On December 20th, 1942 the regiment was under Central Area (East Africa). In 1943 it became part of 6th South African Armoured Division. A Squadron became A Squadron of The Pretoria Regiment; B Squadron became B Squadron of The Prince Alfred’s Guard; C Squadron became C Squadron of The Special Service Battalion. It served in Italy incorporated into these South African units.



    3rd East African Divisional Reconnaissance Regiment
    Raised
    19 January 1942 from 1/3rd King’s African Rifles
    Title Changes
    3rd East African Armoured Car Regiment

    It was formed with HQ, HQ Squadron and A, B and C Squadrons. It included some Europeans posted from the Kenya Armoured Car Regiment. It received its Marmon-Herrington Armoured Cars from the Southern Rhodesia Armoured Car Regiment in late 1942. It reached Gilgit in March 1942, where the conversion was made from an infantry battalion to an armoured car regiment. It left in October 1942 for service in Madagascar and returned in February 1944. It was under Madagascar Troops on October 1st, 1943. It served in Italian East Africa and the Islands area.


    4th East African Armoured Car Regiment
    Raised
    April 1943

    The regiment, on October 1st, 1943, had one squadron under 29th East African Brigade, one unbrigaded under HQ Northern Sub-Area, one under 31st East African Brigade, while the regiment less two squadrons was unbrigaded in Central Area. It served in East Africa from 15 November 1944 until 9 April 1945 under 27th (Northern Rhodesia) Infantry Brigade.


    The Southern Rhodesia Reconnaissance Unit
    Raised
    Shortly after the outbreak of the war

    Soon after the start of war, the Armoured Vehicle Companies in each of the two battalions of the Rhodesia Regiment were amalgamated into the Southern Rhodesia Reconnaissance Unit with an AFV School at Umtali. Volunteers trained in dummy vehicles fabricated to resemble armoured cars. In September 1941 the Recce Unit was reorganized on a squadron basis, fully motorized and renamed Southern Rhodesia Reconnaissance Regiment. Its role was to train and supply personnel to the Southern Rhodesia Armoured Car Regiment, which was serving in East Africa with Marmon Herrington Armoured Cars. It was first equipped with two locally made armoured cars manufactured on 4wd Ford chassis supplied by Duly’s of Umtali. By 1942, it received Marmon-Herringtons.
     
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  2. RobG64

    RobG64 Well-Known Member

    Fantastic David, thank you!

    RobG
     
  3. Nick Symes

    Nick Symes New Member

    Hi, I came across this site whilst researching my grandfathers (Albert William Symes) military history during WW2, where he was part of the Kenya Armoured Car Regt. I have obtained his military records too, but must confess a lot of the abbreviations dont make total sense to me, as it is not a subject I am familiar with. He did serve in Ethiopia, Ceylon and finally India, where he left in July 1945 (where he was part of the SEAC - not sure what this was though) I did find this thread very interesting though in terms of giving a bit more background

    I have found him mentioned in the booklet about the history of the KACR 1939-41 and the action at El Wak in 1940 which was fantastic

    I also have a number of photos he took during the war - a few of these I have attached - the images have been compressed, so might not be great

    Would these images be of any use to anyone or perhaps archive, as I will happily share them? Sadly I dont know the locations for a lot of them, so if there is any help out there that would be great. I would also love to learn more/interpret his military record in terms of the ranks he progressed through (he ended up a major) and also the units he was attached too. He was also mentioned in dispatches twice, but I am not sure if it is possible to find out what that related to

    Many thanks
    Nick
     
  4. RobG64

    RobG64 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Nick, very interesting photos!
    I'm sure that if you posted his military records on here some very nice people can translate those abbreviations for you!

    Rob
     
  5. Rothy

    Rothy Well-Known Member

    Thank you Nick,

    These are fascinating and rare - thank you for sharing.

    I would be happy to try to help decipher your grandfather's service record - please post here or contact me offline ('Start a Conversation').

    I would also be very interested to see higher resolution scans of the photos if you can manage it.

    Steve
     
  6. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Great pictures, Nick.
     
  7. Nick Symes

    Nick Symes New Member

    Thank you all so much for a quick response. Steve I will drop you a line direct, really appreciated

    That is one of the small benefits of lockdown.....having time to do some of these projects I have been wanting to get to. Next will be my grandmothers brother who trained the Turkhana Irregulars in East Africa - I have some photos of these too
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Wil W

    Wil W New Member

    Those photos are brilliant! Such an insight. My great uncle, Corporal Ralph Hastings Clemson Worrall got his MM at Wadara with this regiment (A squadron) on 14/04/41. I think they were the East African Armoured Car Regiment at the time but their naming seems to jump about which makes things hard. Any reading lists or links you can share Nick would be great as I am not getting that much more than the citation.

    Perhaps I should be scanning the photos for him but not sure if NCOs would be in those shots. What rank was Albert William Symes?

    Where did you find a copy of that history of the KACR 1939-41? Looks like you did some serious digging!

    I am not sure if all the squadrons stuck together on their progress to Addis Ababa.

    Thanks again for the photos and thanks in advance for any further info.

    Wil Worrall
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Nick Symes

    Nick Symes New Member

    Hi Wil - thanks for the message. I have received some amazing help. Will message you direct
    Many thanks
    Nick
     
  10. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    The trucks that have fallen off a bridge in the first group appear to be Bedford RLs, which means they are not 1940s, but 1950s or 60s!
    Chris
     
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  11. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

  12. Antony Corrigan

    Antony Corrigan New Member

    Hi,

    I have just came across this website and wondered if anyone recognised the names William Herbert Case and/or Charles (Charlie) Arthur Case? Thought to be in the Kenya Armoured Car Regiment or East African?

    Really keen to trace what I can.

    Both were originally from the UK (Norfolk) but relocated to Kenya in the 1920s.

    What I’ve been able to piece together of Charlie so far based on someone that knew him:

    “During the Second World War, he was in the Kenya Regiment, went up to Somalia and Abyssinia to fight the Italians. He was a Sergeant and very well regarded. I have had the pleasure to talk to one of his former comrades, Mervyn Carnelley, who wrote the history of the Kenya Armoured Car Regiment and he had a aid Charlie was a bit of a hero”.

    Would really love to know more if anyone can help. Not sure this is the right place to ask?

     
  13. Mzinga

    Mzinga New Member

    Nick Iam not sure whether you are still monitoring this site. I am presently trying to put together basic information on the East African combat arms and services formed to support the King’s African Rifles in WW2. The East African Armoured Car Regiment is one of those units. I would be very interested to see the documents documents your grandfather left. I was in the Kenya Regiment for our National Service equivalent. Mzinga
     
  14. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Welcome aboard Mzinga.

    Nick Symes has not logged on since July 2020. You can start a private message using 'Start a Conversation' if you click on your Avatar. Hopefully the email Nick used in 2020 is still active.
     
  15. Mzinga

    Mzinga New Member

    David Thank you. I am sorry to be stupid but I don't understand Avatar. Is there any other way to contact Nick Syme?
     
  16. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Click or hover over your name and several options appear. One is 'Start a Conversation' and you can send a private message to a member. Don't worry understanding can take time.
     
  17. Tom Lawrence

    Tom Lawrence Member

    Wil,

    I am working on this Mzinga. Wadara is also called Uadara when spelt in the 'Italian Way'. It was quite a ferocious battle, and there is a good account of it in a book 'Abyssinian Adventure' by J.F. MacDonald. Forrest MacDonald writes well, and has drawn on his own diaries to write the book, so is accurate. I suspect he will have 'hidden' a few things, like his particular unit which he says is the 5th West African Regiment which doesn't exist. he also talks about the loss of his Coy. Commander -a fellow called Marsden but I cannot follow that up as he does not seem to exist -at least by that name. The book covers their advance all the way up the Somali Coast... with occasional fleeting references to the Rekkies.

    Do you, by any chance have any photos? I ask, as the Rekkies initially had 'home made' armoured cars. They started out with 1.5 ton International trucks, with a Bren Gun mounted on the roof. Then they moved to the 'Susie' which was designed by an ex-RNAS armoured car man, 'Jack' Soames (John B. Soames) who fought in WWI in the Balkans and Russia. Next came the 'Edye' designed by a younger cavalryman in the government in Kenya, and finally came the 'Fortress'. These were all built in the Nairobi Railway Workshops -all funny looking beasts, but at this stage from the few photos we have we don't know which is which.

    They eventually ended up with Marmon-Herrington Armoured cars made in South Africa, but I do not think (but will stand corrected) they had anything later than a Mk. I, or possibly a Mk. II which look the same... the latter was 40cm shorter, and 4WD so difficult to tell apart.

    I will see what I can find out about Cpl. Worral. He does not appear on the Kenya Regt. Roll which means he went straight into the Rekkies.

    Tom
     
  18. Wil W

    Wil W New Member

    No pictures of any kit I am afraid. This one picture is of Ralph and his brother (my grandfather). Best guess is that it is in Italy….. My grandfather was commanding the 16 DLI (could be 2nd in command at this point) and it seems Ralph got an emergency? commission in the Pioneer Corps ACF. I think they went to Italy. Ralph came out the army as a captain. I am not sure if our national archives and army records cover the Pioneer Corps.

    Do shout if any anyone sees anything in the docs or outfits that can help. Thanks in advance.

    Wil
     

    Attached Files:

  19. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    I'm just seeing this now, but:
    armored vehicles? East Africa?? That always makes my ears prick up!
    Edye/Eyde armored car from: David Fletcher's "The great tank scandal":
    EDYE.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. RobG64

    RobG64 Well-Known Member

    Hi, I just saw your question from 2021 whilst looking at this page. Looking on convoyweb.org.uk it would seem that Convoy KR.5 (Kilindini-Colombo) departed on 15th June 1943 and arrived on 27th June 1943 (note: the embarkation date and disembarkation date are probably the day before these dates (so 14th June and 28th June).
    There were ten ships and one escort in the Convoy that arrived at Colombo and they were:

    Aorangi (17,491 ton passenger liner, built 1924)
    Appleleaf (Royal Fleet Auxiliary joined convoy 24th June at sea)
    Ascanius (10,048 ton troop transport, built 1910)
    Cap Tourane (8,009 ton French passenger and depot ship, built 1923)
    Carthage (AMC Escort)
    City of Paris (10,902 passenger cargo ship, built 1922)
    Ekma (5,108 ton passenger cargo liner, built 1911)
    Empire Woodlark (7,703 ton cargo ship, built 1913)
    Lancashire (9,557 ton troopship, built 1917)
    Llanstephan Castle (11,348 ton troopship, built 1914)
    Salween (7,063 ton passenger cargo ship, built 1938)

    It would seem that eight of these ships were passenger/cargo/troopships

    Hope this is of some help!
    Rob
     
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