Hi all, I was wondering if some of you knowledgable folk might be able to help me. Yesterday I visited I dear friend of mine who fought through Burma from the retreat until he was wounded in 1944. From what gleened from him he served in the 111st Brigade during the 2nd Chindit Expedition, apart from this I know nothing else. As he is a Gurkha I am assuming he was in 3rd Battalion, 4th Gurkha Rifles. His name is W.T. Roy but everyone knows him as 'Theo'. He did mention being a Lieutenant during an aborted amphibious assault on Arakan in, I assuming, 1944. I would be greatful for any links or book titles that would be able to teach me a little about what he went through. Many thanks and a Happy New Year
Hi andy, no doubt Bamboo43 will be along shortly, but you can look up his chindit website in the meantime: Chindit Chasing, Operation Longcloth 1943 - Home regards simon
Here's the Bde's War Diary at the National Archives WO 172/4445 111 Indian Infantry Brigade: H.Q. 1944 Jan.- Aug.
Hi Andy, 3/4 GR were columns numbered 30 and 40. Both began life as units of 111th Brigade and 30 column remained so for the full length of their time in Burma that year. 40 column were taken away early on to form part of 'Morris Force', moving around the Chindit area of influence. sol may be aware of a specific book which covers the GR participation in Chindit 2. I have not come across this officer before, but then again, Chindit 2 is not really my area. I leave that to Hebridean Chindit and Eddie Chandler. It should be stated that 3/9 and 4/9 GR were also part of Chindit 2. Books: 'Road Past Mandalay', by Jack Masters March or Die, by Phil Chinnery for a good overview of events. War in the Wilderness, by Tony Redding. A new book out recently that covers 1944 and has many first hand accounts from veterans who were present. Wait and see what the other Gents recommend first, they will know more about the subject than me.
Hi Andy, as Steve already mentioned both battalions of the 9th Gurkha Rifles at some time served under 111th Indian Brigade, and 3/9th Gurkhas was the only one which served in Burma before 2nd Chindits, the Battalion was for short time based in Arakan in 1943 before it joined Chindits. Two books mentioned in previous post will give you lot info about 2nd Chindits, Calvert "Chindits: Long Range Penetration". There are couple more books which could be interesting for you but you have to be first sure exactly what are you looking for. Do you know anything else?
30 Column, 3/4th GR... He's not a name I recognise from material I've got but there is no listing other than those known to have died... I presume from his name that he is a "British" Gurkha - the one thing I have not been able to find is a true "Gurkha" account of what went on over there... I have a list of most of the 1st Cameronian Officers, not that that is of use to you... What he went through...? (Major/Commander) John "Jack" Masters' book (already mentioned) - probably the best first-hand account but very Officers-perspective... (Lt/Cipher Off.) Richard Rhodes James' book "Chindit" will give you most of what you need to know as the Ghurkha's were with HQ a lot of the time... still very Officer... (Capt) Frank Baines - "Chindit Affair" - new this year but from a "discovered" manuscript that he could not get published as it detail his sexual proclivity, which even by modern standards was scandalous - he served with 3/4th GR throughout but held back in defence with some Gurkha troops to guard the fall-back route from "Blackpool" - some very useful material about the periphery of the campaign... (Maj.) Bill Towill (adjutant to the 3/9th GR) "A Chindit's Chronicle" - a very good read and gives a truly brutal account of the last five days at "Blackpool", which is when they got there from the 77th... front-line stuff... (Maj/IO) John Headley has a partial account that makes up a chapter of his book "Jungle Fighter"... intersting but pricey and difficult to find... I have the 111th diaries as part of my research but from a "dipping-a-toe-in" perspective is rather in-depth - all filling-and-no-bread for the sandwich... There is some brief details from the 3/9th diaries at Kew but no sign of the 3/4th there unfortunately... both saw action at "Blackpool", which is my area of study... I still have to contact the Gurkha museum as I'm snowed under with material at present... Ideally, you need to confirm he was with 30 Column and when/where he was wounded to get a handle on what he went through... the closer to 25th May 1944, the worse it would have been... I would be most interested to hear more about what he went through if he was there as that is the detail of the book I am working on...
Sorry for the delayed reply lads, I have been away for the last few days. Simon and Drew thank you very much for the replies Steve,Sol and Hebridean Chindit, I will have a nosey at the books you have suggested. Sol, to be honest I don't really know what I am looking for but will try and get some more details when I visit him again this week. Even though I have known him for a very long time we have never really talked about the war in any real detail. Hebridean Chindit, You are correct he is a 'British' Gurkha. He is part British, part Indian (I can't remember if it was his Mother or Father who were Indian). He was born in Northern India and was involved in the fighting that followed the separation of India and Pakistan in 1947. As above, I am visiting him again in the next few days so will try and get a bit more identifying information pass it on. Until next time,
Hebridean, If his Burma recollections are anything like the rest of his life then it will be quite a story! To say he has lead an interesting life would be an understatement.
I met up with the veteran again today for lunch (he cooks an awesome curry!) and got a little bit more out of him. -He was airlifted out of Blackpool in a US light aircraft on 5 April 1944 after being wounded. I am unsure of the circumstances surrounding his wounding though. -I took along a bit of a write up I found online about the 2nd Chindit Expedition and on reading that units at Blackpool were significantly under strength, he said "thats because all the buggers were dead!"....pretty sobering stuff. -He also said that they didn't pay the Burmese in Rupees for local produce but rather they gave them bits of metal to make knives out of. -I am pretty confident he was in 3rd Battalion, 4th Gurkha Rifles as he was also involved in the Sittang Bridge disaster in 1942 and 3rd Battalion, 4th Gurkha Rifles were the only Gurkha unit present. Hope that is of interest to people
-I am pretty confident he was in 3rd Battalion, 4th Gurkha Rifles as he was also involved in the Sittang Bridge disaster in 1942 and 3rd Battalion, 4th Gurkha Rifles were the only Gurkha unit present. Hope that is of interest to people Actually not, 3/4th Gurkhas wasn't there but 1/4th Gurkhas was. And of course that we are very interested in stories like that
Actually not, 3/4th Gurkhas wasn't there but 1/4th Gurkhas was. And of course that we are very interested in stories like that Sol, you and that Bridge, do you dream about Sittang!!!!
Actually not, 3/4th Gurkhas wasn't there but 1/4th Gurkhas was. And of course that we are very interested in stories like that Gor blimey sol! I thought I was onto something lol. The vet didn't give me a positive confirmation when I asked whether he was in 3/4 or not. I do know for certain he was present during the Sittang disaster. He was either the only Officer or one of a couple that made it back to safe lines with a group of 100+ ORs. He told a pretty horrific story about having to put men who couldn't swim onto rafts made of clay pots and wood tied together with boot laces and losing quite few when they were swept away in crossing a river.
Sol, you and that Bridge, do you dream about Sittang!!!! No ... not yet Gor blimey sol! I thought I was onto something lol. The vet didn't give me a positive confirmation when I asked whether he was in 3/4 or not. I do know for certain he was present during the Sittang disaster. He was either the only Officer or one of a couple that made it back to safe lines with a group of 100+ ORs. He told a pretty horrific story about having to put men who couldn't swim onto rafts made of clay pots and wood tied together with boot laces and losing quite few when they were swept away in crossing a river. Andy, whether he remembers the names of any of the officers in his unit?
sol, I will ask him in a couple of days time, I'm heading home tomorrow (been staying with family over the Xmas/New Year break) and will get back to you if I come up with anything
... He was airlifted out of Blackpool in a US light aircraft on 5 April 1944... ... He also said that they didn't pay the Burmese in Rupees for local produce but rather they gave them bits of metal to make knives out of... He probably meant "Broadway" as that date was pre "Blackpool" which was around 7th to 25th May 1944... Dad, like many of them, were given silver Rupees to barter with, but chucked them for weight reasons - parachute silk was quite a polular item too... "thats because all the buggers were dead!"... nice quote... If he has accurate dates I can give you diary details for him...
Thanks Hebridean, as you will appreciate the topic is not one with the best of memories for him, so I have been reluctant to delve too deep and thus have had to take some educated guesses (so far I am zero from two lol). I am unsure when he went in but the evacuation date of 5 April 1944 is correct. Reading from this site Burma & The Chindits he would have been evacuated from Chowringhee if he had been at Broadway? I still suspect he was part of 3/4 Gurkhas for the 2nd Chindit Expedition, but it is possible that he may have been transferred from another battalion (maybe 1 Battalion as noted by sol) within 4 Gurkha Rifles after the Sittang bridge battle due to his Jungle experience. I am also leaning towards him being in 30 Column as I asked about 'Morris Force' and got a bit of blank look, and he has distinctly said he was part of 111st Brigade when I originally asked what unit he was in for the Chindit expedition. He recounted that before the Chindit expedition he was sent to a Jungle warfare school somewhere in India as an instructor and coming across these big hairy Geordies (his words!). As an aside to this he said the Gurkhas shaved every part of their bodies before going into the Jungle. I have just finished reading James Shaw's 'The March Out', a fascinating book. Once again thanks for all the help guys P.S. Just remembered one thing that may help with identification of the base. He mentioned that his now friend Alan Peart DFC (fighter) flew into the 'base' but his squadron was strafed by Japanese aircraft and he was the only one to get off the ground and away.....and here it is Aircrew Book Review: Hostile Company - Alan Peart DFC in action it was Broadway! well done Hebridean
Hi Andy, What we all forget is that reading about these conflicts is one thing, being part of them was an altogether different experience. If you have an interest in something you read in depth and in some cases become a little obsessed, ain't that right HC!! All the Other ranked men I have met from Chindit 2, which are mostly 1st Kings, had no real idea where they were at any particular point in the operation. What I always ask them is did you walk out with Scott, or did you go to Mogaung with Calvert, they normally can answer that one. Marching, counter-marching, go here, go there, plus the passing of 65+ years can cloud the memory. One quote from a discussion with a Kingsman in 2011: "can you remember what the number of your glider was?". answer: "son, I just did as I was told and just got in and sat down". question: "what was it like to be flying over the Burmese countryside that day?". answer: "I've got no bloody idea mate, as I had me head buried in me lap for the whole time I was that scared!". I love talking to these guys, as I'm sure you do too.
Thanks Steve, I know what you mean. More often than I care to count my friends and even my Girlfriend who is a Historian say I've become a little too attached to whatever WWII topic I am researching at the time lol. The joys of our research is that we can take the on the ground view from the vets who were there and compare and contrast to the big picture stuff that has been published later. But as with anything we will never really know the complete ins and outs of a certain topic.
Steve... is that me or you being obssessive, or possibly a rhetorical question knowing we both are... It's Ken, Andy, as was me dad and me granddad... not a lot of imagination up on the Island when it comes to names for the records... it's all about the nick-name up there...! For that matter, being from a family with the wandering spirit, I have an uncle from both sides buried in your City althoug no known family living in NZ these days (moced to the "coathanger" area), and did you ever sail on the ferry MV Suiliven, which was based there for a while - you can see her sailing on a rather rough day (which I certainly had experieice of similar during her numerous years operating between the mainland and Stornoway) if you google "Ferry From Hell"... I'll go and check the diary for that date and see waht was going on with 30 Column that day and the preceding few...
