10th Battalion Rifle Brigade

Discussion in 'Unit Documents' started by Craig day, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Hi
    I am new to the forum and am trying to trace my Fathers footsteps through Tunisia and Italy. (Rfm Richard Day). I know he was a signaller in B Company. I'm not sure if he was in HQ Coy or one of the Platoons. I was wondering where the war dairies for 10RB would be kept (Winchester or Kew). I already know quite a bit about the 61st infantry brigade but very little about Tunisia, Jan to May 43 and Italy, March to May 44. I'd be grateful if anyone could Help
    Craig
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Craig

    I've just checked and there are copies at Kew. They start in 1941 and finish in March 1945-I'm assuming it was around this time the battalion was disbanded.

    Regards
    Andy
     
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  3. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Craig.

    6 Armoured Division in Italy had two Armoured Brigades and one Infantry Brigade. Until 29 May 44, the Infantry Brigade was 1 Guards Brigade - who were deployed as a fixing force in Cassino town, but, after the fall of Cassino on 18 May 44 that was changed on 30 May 44 to 61 Infantry Brigade made up of 2nd Battalion, 7th Battalion & 10th Battalion Rifle Brigade. 61 Infantry Brigade then stayed with the Division until the end the war.

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  4. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    No doubt you'll know that Ken Ford covers the 6th Armoured Div history...of course, the Division had it quite rough in the early part of the Tunisian campaign north of Bou Arada...Two Tree Hill was a grim place of cloying mud for 10 RB and others in January 1943...after 10 RB and 6 Innisks in turn failed to recapture the hill, it was noted by Major John Horfall of the Faughs:

    "..The following morning as the stark outline of the ridges appeared against the first glow of dawn, we noticed that something had happened – that tantalising hill was somehow different. Then the penny dropped. Our humourless adversaries had cut down the two trees, realising their significance.

    As for (Brigadier) Pat Scott, he took one look and only made one remark – 'Spiteful', he said..."
     
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  5. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Hi Andy and Frank
    Thanks for the really quick responses,
    Andy, Thanks for confirming where the records are held, I am initialy intrested in the periods that 10RB & Dad were actually involved in Action. He did'nt travel with Blade Force in Nov 42 (One of the many things I am curious about) but arrived on the Cameronia (which was torpedoed) early in Jan 43, upto the fall of Tunis in May I believe. Then from his arrival in Italy in in March 44 until the formation of the 61st Infantry Brigade. Do you know the record numbers I should be looking for as I have a week off soon and might pay Kew a visit, alternitivly It might just be easier to enlist your services as I have read very good reports on your work!
    Frank, thanks for your reply also, I have the books "Mailed Fist", "61st Infantry Brigade" & James Wilsons "Unusual Undertakings" and am looking for a copy of RHWS Hastings book as we speak
    Regards
    Craig
     
  6. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Richard
    Thanks for the reply, it came up just as I was typing my previous post, I know from Dads army records that he rejoined 10RB just before Bou Arada, I will now look at those other links
    Regards
    Craig
     
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  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD



    WO 175/518 1942 Oct.- 1943 June
    10 Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) | The National Archives

    WO 169/10288 1943 July- Dec.
    10 Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) | The National Archives

    WO 170/1470 1944 Jan.- Dec.
    10 Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) | The National Archives

    WO 170/5064 1945 Jan.- Mar.
    10 Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) | The National Archives
     
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  8. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Owen
    Thanks, Great stuff, you obviously know what you are doing negotiating Kews search engine! if I could be cheeky and ask a favour?
    Dad told me he was posted to the "machine Guns". Having read the History of the 61st Infantry Brigade I think the following may have happened :- Dads records state that on 20/3/45 he was posted to 2RB (when 10RB were disbanded). Due to an excess of men they formed the No2 Heavy Support Coy (Machine Guns???) which according to the book never fired a shot in anger. Was this then disbanded, and Dad then posted onto 7RB on the 09/04/44 as his records show and that he stayed with them until Egypt 1946. I would be very pleased if you could come up with some records for the short lived No2 Heavy Support Company?
    Regards
    Craig
     
  9. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Craig,

    Infantry Divisions in the war had a Machine Gun Support Battalion which provided Vickers Medium Machine Gun, 4.2" Mortar and Oerlikon 20mm Anti-Aircraft Platoons to their three Infantry Brigades. The Brigade Commander then allocated these troops to where ever he saw fit. This means that Infantry Battalions had, under command, Vickers MMGs, 4.2" Mortars and the 20mm Oerlikons and this added to their firepower during specific operations.

    Armoured Divisions did not have this arrangement so it sounds like 6 Armd Div, late in the war, tried to create their own.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  10. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Frank,
    your probably right, the motor battalions had their own support companies with MMG,s (303's I believe, and anti-tank guns. 3" Mortars were included within the Company HQ and 2" mortars within each platoon HQ. so they had none of the heavy weapons as you describe above. After the reorg 2 & 7 RB's retained this format but with extra personnel available I guess they saw it as an opportunity to provide heavier weapon support. What intrigues me is why they decided they no longer needed this support and disbanded it. (if they did of course).
    Craig
     
  11. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer. Patron

    Craig, I've a copy of The London Rifle Brigade 1919-1950 by Durand &Hastings published by Gale & Polden. If you are chasing a book that as the title of The Rifle Brigade in the Second World War 39-45 by (Major R.H.W.S.) then good luck. You may be looking at about £120 or less. I misted the above book going for about £80.00 not long ago (it was in mint condition)

    Attachments below of the book that i have mentioned. Not had a chance to get my head around it.

    Regards
    Stu




    CCF24022017_0001 (2).jpg
    CCF24022017 (2).jpg
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    No , I used Lee's aka PsyWar.Org search engine.
    Arcre British Army War Diary Search Engine - Arcre

    Give that a go, it's alot better than Kew's.

    Just wondering if you've seen this photo ?
    Vickers machine gun team of 10th Battalion The Rifle Brigade, training near Bou Arada, 30 April 1943.
    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN TUNISIA 1943. © IWM (NA 2407)
    IWM Non Commercial Licence
     
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  13. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Hi Stu
    I missed a copy of the 39-45 book about two weeks ago on E-Bay for 35 quid! I've seen copies on the web for about £80-00. The local library are trying to get me a copy before I dive in At that price. How big is the chapter on 10RB in the book you have shown there?
    Craig
     
  14. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Hi Owen
    I have seen that picture, I often wonder who they are and if Dad knew them. There are very few 10RB photo's on the internet. The other picture I like is the one of C Coy patrolling in the Arno Valley. On another day the Rfm with the radio could have been Dad C Company 10th RB Arno Valley 17th July 44.jpg
     
  15. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer. Patron

    Craig, there is no chapter on 10RB as such. They get a mention along with 2, & 7RB on the different chapters of the Brigades time in Italy. It may be wise to obtain the War diaries from Andy, he only charges 10 pence a page. Also, Lee aka (PsyWar.org) he do's copy's as-well. Don't dive in & pay silly coin for the book (one day it will turn up). I'm willing to scan the pages of the book if needed?
    There is another book out there, its called "Prepare to Move" With the 6th Armoured Division in Africa & Italy by Frank Beckett..
    Its going for about 25 quid in hard cover.. Don't get the paper back version, the spine is useless! It split in half when I put it on my scanner.
    Regards
    Stu.
     
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  16. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Thanks Stu
    Unbelievably the library have come good, managed to copy all the bits that I wanted, glad I didn't fork out 80 quid for it !
    Craig
     
  17. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer. Patron

    Well done the library. I'm glad you didn't spend all that coin. Would you mind showing me the contents page? I'm more interested in the 61 Infantry Brigade time in Italy. If that book had been in my library, then i would have offered to buy it off them. It would be handy to see if its worth obtaining in the future. I do believe there are a lot of pages (about 400 or so).
    Regards:cool:
    Stu.
     
  18. Craig day

    Craig day Member

    Hi Stu
    I have attached the contents page, basically its chapters 18-24 that covers the 61st Infantry Brigade, I haven't read it yet as I have been concentrating on Dad's service records this week but I don't think it adds much more than the two books I have already, by the way what is your connection with the 61st if you don't mind my asking?
    Craig
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer. Patron

    I've no connection with the 61st. Its more of a on-going interest with anything to do with the US 5th Army.One book leads to another.
    The only things is, which book do's one complete. Its quite interesting researching all the family that served in any of the forces.
    Thanks for the contents page.
    Stu.
     
  20. jerryb

    jerryb Member

    Hi, not sure if anyone read a post of mine a while back about a chap in 10RB, I'm still looking for info. He was in a universal carrier in Italy in 10RB and I need info on shoulder flashes, carrier markings and the like. Does anyone have any idea where I should look? I 've managed to fine out that the carrier would have had a mailed fist and the white number 54 on a red background but that's about all. If you look at my previous post you will get an idea of what I'm trying to do. Thanks for any help, J.
     

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