102 (Northumberland Hussars) Archer TAC sign

Hi Ian,

I'm not Steve but as far as I understand it:
- 50th Div landed at Gold on D-Day
- So did 8th Armoured Brigade
- Guards Armoured Division did not land in Normandy until the end of June. Was 102 (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regiment part of this division earlier? If so, by this point in time, it would be irrelevant.
- Armoured brigades did not include an anti-tank regiment (8th Armoured Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia ) does show the "order of battle" for 8th Armoured Brigade
- The regiment was part of 50th Division so would have had the Tyne & Tees formation sign
- If a battery was given a temporary assignment to support another unit ("placed under the command of") it would not repaint its insignia.

Hope that helps - I would be happy to try to help figure out the markings if I can assist

 

That was true of field artillery, but Anti tank artillery might not have followed that system.

Field artillery Sub-sections included the gun tractor and limber. Ammunition limbers were scaled to one per section or even a troops asset, so this pattern would not work.

The artillery vehicle letters predate WW2. In WW1 guns were lettered A-F in the four or six gun battery. I suspect the allocation of other letters to may go back to WW1 or its aftermath, so G, J, K, M, Q already had specific associations. Field artillery regiments had 24 guns, with the guns in each battery lettered A - H . Anti tank regiments had 12 guns in each battery, and Light AA had 18.

Light AA guns were given the troop letter and a number. E.g. the guns of F Troop 92 Light AA Regiment that defended Pegasus Bridge were F1 -F6.

Canadian field artillery used a troop letter and number.

 

Troops in AT regiments were identified by a letter starting with A in the senior battery but they would not necessarily be consecutive. That is, the first battery was probably A-D, second E-H, but nor always.

Guns or at least SPs seem to have them simply been given a number within the troop. Sub-section does not seem to be reflected in markings. But most SP photos do not seem to show these designations so my impression is based on limited information.

 

Hello Ian,

I wish to reiterate that the 102nd (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regiment were permanent divisional troops of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division from long before D-Day until the 50 Div was broken up and returned home as a training cadre on circa 1 December 1944, when it was transferred to the 15th (Scottish) Division. It was never on the orbat of the 8th Armoured Brigade or the Guards Armoured Division. It would have used the ‘TT’ formation sign whilst with 50 Div and I believe it did for a long while after it joined 15 Div.

I will revert later regarding the order of arms...

Best,

Steve.

 

Hi Steve

Hope you are well and happy 2021
All I need now to complete the homage to Joe is the Tank makings, any information and guidance will be very gratefully appreciated. This what we have created so far -

 

Hi Ian,

Derek Barton's great RA site is back on line.

Take a look at this, it might help.

Home - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

102 (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regiment RA(TA) - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

Cheers

Kevin

 

Kevin
Thats really helpful thanks - the TAC is there - great much appreciated - it confirmed a lot Happy 2021 Kevin - stay safe
Ian

 

From Derek Barton.

so 46 it is

 

Ian,
Glad my site was some help. I notice in the photo of the model you have given the crew black berets. Do you have any evidence for this or is it just artistic licence? I know a number of RA units wore the black beret & would like to include this information on my site if there is evidence.
Thanks
Derek

 

Hi Derek,

According to "The British Soldier" by Jean Bouchery it was certainly worn by RA units:-

Black Beret
Royal Armoured Corps, Household Cavalry, Armoured Foot Guards, Reconnaissance Corps, and certain Royal Artillery self-propelled regiments.

Still looking for specific 102 Northumberland Hussar examples to confirm.

Just found in Valentine pt 2 by Dick Taylor
on page 43 is a photo of an Archer with 2 crew crossing railway the IWM ref is BU 3478.
Looking at the enlarged IWM image directly it looks like the berets are not black, in my opinion.

THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45

Great to see the site back up and running again, really useful resource.

Cheers

Kevin

 

Yes Joe saw my RN beret and commented it was the same colour he wore during the war, an no bump helmets like the "yanks"

Real character was Joe

 

although after seeing Kevin T's comment in this photo its difficult to see but it not so obvious black.It looks like the GS beret which I understand would be standard khaki colour? My Grandfather who was S/Sgt 6th AGRA his was khaki.\
The model can change easily if confirmed.

Ian

 

I went back to the photos and this one of Joe prior to D Day looks like he's wearing a GS cap and does not look black to me - but with B/W pictures over 70 years old - its difficult. Joe was poorly when we met up with him and took him out with the lads, hence the reference to my rig. etc

 

GS Caps in the photos I have, mainly khaki berets for officers I think

 

Yeah, I know he transferred to 15th Scottish around the October time when pushing north, I am leaning towards the GS cap and not black beret.
Thanks AB64

Ian

 

Thanks everyone, I'll stick with the GS Cap for now. You'd be surprised how many different items of headgear were worn in the RA. Just recently I have seen photos of several units wearing a light khaki beret. These were supposed to have been for motorised infantry battalions, who knows how they ended up on Gunner heads.
I'm always looking for examples of non-regulation badges & items of dress for the site so if you find any please let me know. For examples of what I am looking for see the Insignia section on my site.

Derek