1/6th Queens Royal West Surrey Regt Diaries

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Kieron Hill, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    I have Friday off and want to take a
    look at the 1/6th Queens Royal West
    Surreys regiment war diaries. I thought
    they were held at Kew, but I am not
    sure now because someone told me that
    they are at Guildford museum, either way
    I am going down south Friday to visit my
    Dad so does anyone of the top of their
    head know where they are held?

    Cheers
    Kieron
     
  2. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    The originals are at the National Archives in Kew.

    Quite a few of them!

    WO 166/4497 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1939 Sept.- 1940 Mar., June - Dec.
    WO 166/4498 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1941 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 166/8837 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1942 Jan.-Apr.
    WO 167/809 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1940 Apr.-May
    WO 169/5050 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1942 June- Dec.
    WO 169/10281 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1943 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 169/23234 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1946 Jan.- June
    WO 171/1367 [​IMG]1/6 Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) 1944 Jan.- Dec.
     
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  3. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    Paul, that is fantastic best I get there early :D.

    Cheers
    Kieron
     
  4. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Don't forget the digital camera - photocopying is expensive at TNA! There are also tables with copying stands built on, which makes life easier!
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Kieron,

    I've been going through loads of old WW2 books at my fathers and I've come across one called War Diary and it is made up of recollections of men who served in WW2 all over the world and from all sides.

    There's two entries under 1/6 Queens Regiment (Assuming they are the same unit as you've listed), a picture taken at El Alamein and a account from Lt. Col. M. Forrester (Inc two pics of him) during the invasion of France. If you are interested I'll type them up for you ?

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  6. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    That would be great Andy I didn't manage to get
    down to Kew in the end so a little disapointed,
    hopefuly get down there in about three weeks,
    so your offer would be really appreciated.

    Lt. Col. M. Forrester Commanded 1/6th Bn
    The Queen's Royal Regiment from August
    1943 Middle East to June 1944 Europe
    where he was wounded. So the entries
    will be an interesting read, thanks again
    Andy.

    Cheers
    Kieron
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No Probs, I'll type it up tomorrow for you mate and scan the pics if I get time.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    We didn’t know, of course, when D-Day was going to be – in fact we knew very little about anything. We were given training directives and facilities in Norfolk at that time were quite good. But there were things other than training to be dealt with. Everyone had been abroad for a very long time.

    Leave was the first thing. I remember we got as many people as we possibly could away on leave. I forgot how long they had now, but this was the first time they had seen their families for a long time.

    One other aspect which I’d like to mention is the fact that we were back in England again for the first time after a considerable number of years, and this meant being at home as opposed to being in the desert where there were virtually no inhabitants, so all needed reminding of the importance of local public relations, which in our case included the people of King’s Lynn and the villages around it which we would be passing through for training. We were trying to weld ourselves into the community and become part of it, although we knew we weren’t going to be there for very long. The people of that part of England were open-hearted and kindness itself and they gave us a marvellous welcome – they could not have made us more at home.

    There was also a memorable day which General Erskine, our divisional commander, arranged especially for the division, and that was an investiture at the Palace, when every member of the Division who was due to receive a medal, won during the previous months and years abroad, was included, so it was very much a family affair at Buckingham Palace. All these things, including the visits, tended to raise our spirits and morale, and made us feel we were in for something very important.

    Training directives indicated that we were going to be fighting in fairly close country, and in the event, when we got to Normandy, we found the so-called bocage country there even more restricting and close than even we had anticipated. It was, because of its nature, almost a great change from Italy as the desert had been to Italy, because the fields had been so very, very small, with high banks with hedges on top and them dividing up the fields, making field of view and tank movement very, very difficult indeed. Of course the Germans had the advantage over us there – they were familiar with it.

    Of course we were aware from the start that we were going to take part in the invasion of Europe, but we didn’t know where we were going, and I remember very late on, all the officers had to assemble at some cinema somewhere, and the Army Commander, General Miles Dempsey, was to address us. I had served under him for a short time when he was commanding XIII Corps with his headquarters in Syria.

    He very kindly spotted me in the audience, and had a few words with me, and something I said must have caused him to say, ‘But surely you know you’re going to.....’ and he got ‘Nor’ out, and then he checked himself. He said, ‘Didn’t you know?’ He had stopped at ‘Nor’, so I thought Norway. Then he realised we didn’t know – weren’t supposed to know – so he deftly changed the subject. I went round in a haze for the next day or so, wondering if we were going to Norway or Normandy!

    So it was as closely kept secret as that, right up to the end, and when our time came to get ready finally, we moved out of our areas in Norfolk down to camps, very sparse, primitive tented camps – but perfectly adequate for the purpose, in Essex. It was there that our camps were sealed, or we were sealed into them, and we were briefed properly, and allowed to brief right down to soldier level – but up ‘til then know one had known.

    It’s very relevant to talk about fear. The unknown, which we were going into, meant uncertainty. You don’t know, and uncertainty leads to apprehension, and so the adrenalin is flowing, quite rightly.

    I don’t think fear actually comes into ones thoughts until one is confronted with something dangerous, but the apprehension is there all the time. I would say I felt really frightened on several occasions. I think too, that the definition of war (which is anonymous, though someone may lay claim to it) that ‘War consists of long periods of intense boredom, punctuated by short periods of intense fright’, is a good one. I think it was coined for the First War, it was very relevant for the Second War too.

    Once confronted with a situation, there are certain sorts of fear. I think the predominant sort of fear, in the case of some, is ‘Am I going to be up to this myself?’ I think it’s awfully important to recognise that – it takes a certain amount of personal drive to overcome it, and to say, ‘Yes I am.’ Certainly, while people were very frightened, they went on because they felt they couldn’t possibly not go on. Esprit De Corps is very important for morale because you drive yourself to meet the challenge, and you know other people are meeting it too, and you are going to be in it with them.

    Men of the 1/6th Queens Regiment can be seen in the background as they take the town of Scafati, Sciliy. Foreground a PoW from the Hermann Goring Division.
    [​IMG]

    Lt. Col. M. Forrester DSC, MC.
    [​IMG]

    Lt. Col. M. Forrestor (Centre) introduces Lt. Paddy Toolan (Left, who was awarded the MM in Palestine, but was sadly killed in France at Briquessard) and Maj-Gen Erskine to King George the VI, on a visit to 131 (Queen's) Brigade in Norfolk. Here the King inspects the 1/6th Queens.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    Cheers Andy much appreciated an interesting
    read.

    Thanks again

    Kieron
     
  10. Al London

    Al London Member

    Hi Keiron,

    My granddad was also in 1/6 Queens.

    He was wounded in Normandy, but lucky enough to survive.

    I would be interested to share info with you as we seem to be interested in the same subject.

    Did you ever get to see the War Diaries?

    I am going to try to go to Kew soon myself.

    Allie
     
  11. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    Hi Allie, No I didn't manage to get down there in the
    end but I have a few days off next week so I am
    trying my hardest to set one of those days aside
    to get down there. When I do I'll post my results
    here. If I do manage to get down there is there
    anything you would like me to look at. I am going
    tp look at the diaries for the dates leading up to
    my Grandad being wounded.

    Cheers
    Kieron
     
  12. Al London

    Al London Member

    Hi Kieron,

    My grandfather was a soldier before the war, with the Scot's Guards briefly and then the Royal Fusiliers for several years. I have his Army service records, but annoyingly these don't mention him ever being transferred from the Royal Fusiliers to the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment.

    However we know he must have been, because his 1944 marriage certificate states he was in the Queens and an old photo we have of him shows him with a Queens cap badge. The dates on his Army service record led me to conclude he was probably transferred to 1/5, 1/6 or 1/7 Queens after Dunkirk.

    Last month I eventually identified the only photo we had of him as a photo of 1/6 Queens at the 10th Anneversary of the liberation of Ghent celebrations in the early 1950s. So, I am finally pretty confident he was 1/6 Queens!

    The dates on my grandfather's service records are:

    Home: 1/9/39 - 4/10/39
    France B.E.F.: 5/10/39 - 31/5/40
    Home: 1-6-40 - 25/5/42
    Middle East: 26/5/42 - 9/9/43
    North Africa: 10/9/43 - 5/1/44
    Home: 6/1/44 - 3/6/44
    North West Europe: 4/6/44 - 14/6/44
    Wounded In Action
    Home: 15/6/44 - 12/11/44
    North West Europe: 13/11/44 - 7/12/44
    Home: 8/12/44 - 18/5/45

    From the above dates I'm guessing he may well have been wounded at the Battle of Villers-Bocage.

    Also, although I now know he attended the Ghent liberation 10th anniversary celebrations in the early 1950s, it would appear from his service dates he wasn't personally involved in the liberation of Ghent!

    Like many soldiers my grandfather didn't talk about the War, but my mother recalls there were several family holidays to Ghent in Belgium and other places in Holland when she was a child. She wasn't aware these were connected to her father's war history, but on reflection I suppose they quite possibly were. My grandfather learnt to speak Dutch perfectly visited Belgium and Holland as often as he could throughout his life.

    My grandfather's name was Harold William Reeves and he was a Sergeant.

    My nan always said he had a terrible time at Dunkirk and this affected him very badly, but, from his service dates, I'm thinking he must have only been transferred into the Queen's after Dunkirk.

    Like you I'd like to find out more about how my grandfather was wounded in Normandy if that were possible. I am also interested in all his war history of course. I am also especially curious about the time the Queen's were based in King's Lynn preparing for D-Day.

    My grandfather was an illegitmate child born and raised (by a foster family) in South East London. After his death we found out that his natural mother, who he didn't know, was actually from King's Lynn. It is very curious to me that by a strange twist of fate he was walking around his natural mother's home town in 1944, posibbly passing his mother and half-siblings in the street without knowing it. His foster mother actually fell ill at the same time and it looks like he got her away from the bombing in London up to where he was in King's Lynn, because she died and was burried in King's Lynn in 1944. You couldn't make strange twists like this up!

    I wouldn't ask you to look anything up for me at Kew, because I can make it there myself sometimes, plus I know what it's like when you get to these record offices and there is so much to look at and so little time!

    But it is great to find someone else interested in the same area of history as me. Perhaps we can share general research and certainly if you ever found anything about my grandfather in the course of your own research I'd love to hear about it and I will look out for your grandfather in my own research.

    Over the years I have bought various books on the 7th Armoured Division and the Queens. Some of the ones about the Queen's are:

    Algiers to Tunis, North Africa 1942-43, published in 1993 by the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment Museum

    History of the Queen's Royal Regiment, Volume VIII, 1924-1948, Major R. C. G. Foster

    Terratorial Battalions of the Regiments of Surrey and Their Successors, published in 1992 by the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment Museum

    The Queen's Royal Regiment, published by Malcolm Page Ltd., c.1952, (a booklet designed to stimulate interest in an army career with the Queen's)

    A Short History of the Queen's Royal Regiment, 1953, published by Gale & Polden Ltd.

    The Journal of the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment, Vo1. 1, May 1960

    The Lambeth and Southwark Volunteers, A Century of Voluntary Service in the Volunteers and Terratorials 1860 - 1960, compiled by J. M. A. Tamplin, T. D.

    Traditions, Treasures and Personalities of The Regiment, published date unknown but probably quite recent, by the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment Museum

    The Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) by Jock Haswell, 1967

    The Only Way Out, R. M. Wingfield, 1955

    I list these in case you haven't seen some of them. If you are interested in particular battles or events, I can type up any info on them in these books.

    Allie
     

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