“War establishment” query- Armoured Car Company, RTC 1927

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by Maureene, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. Maureene

    Maureene Well-Known Member

    I found the following link on a website called “War Establishments”
    http://www.warestablishments.net/Great%20Britain/Reconnaissance/Armoured%20Car%20Company%201927.pdf It is headed:
    An Armoured Car Company, R.T.C. [Royal Tank Corps]
    War Establishment
    Issued with A.C.I. 500 of 10th December 1927

    I think it is probably a transcription, not an original document.

    As far as I am aware, in 1927 all Armoured Car Companies, RTC were based out of England, mainly in India, but also Egypt, and Shanghai.

    I am trying to get an indication as to whether the staffing level in India would have been less, or would it have been at the war establishment level, or would it have varied.

    Prior to, and after 1927, there were various actions where medals were awarded to the men of the Armoured Car Companies, RTC. Would these have been regarded as wars, resulting in a “war establishment” ? In addition, generally on the North West Frontier of India, there seemed to be a lot of isolated killings done by the tribesmen, even when there wasn’t a “war” on - it seems to have been quite a dangerous place to be.

    Also, does anyone have any thoughts about “Issued with A.C.I. 500 of 10th December 1927“, as to what the document may have been?

    Cheers
    Maureen
     
  2. Aixman

    Aixman WE addict

    Maureen

    A.C.I. means "Army Council Instructions", the way war establishments were published. During the Second World War, war establishments were published strictly weekly, but before the war, as this example here, publishing of war establishments was less regular.

    Telling by the typical minor spelling errors (and comparing other W.Es. from his site with the originals), Tony Chadwick's W.Es. might be scans treated with optical character recognition.

    Cheers
    Aixman
     
  3. Maureene

    Maureene Well-Known Member

    Thanks Aixman.

    I had not heard of Army Council Instructions before, but I have found they are available at the National Archives Kew, as WO 293 records

    Thanks also for the comment about the OCR of a scan.

    Cheers
    Maureen
     
  4. Aixman

    Aixman WE addict

    You find the war establishments in Kew in the WO 24 series.
    The one you mentioned is in volume 932, copy No. 3 (a kind of order key).
    By chance, I copied it with several thousands other war establishments when I visited Kew last month. I wasn't aware yesterday.
     
  5. Maureene

    Maureene Well-Known Member

    Aixman, the WO 293 catalogue reference appears to be correct from the description which says WO 293 1914-1964 War Office: Army Council: Instructions.
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/r/C14497

    Would these be different Army Council Instructions to the ones you have mentioned, or is it that the same documents may be found both in the WO 24 series of records, and the WO 293 records?

    Also, do you know what constitutes a "war, for a war establishment to come into force.

    Cheers
    Maureen
     
  6. Aixman

    Aixman WE addict

    Maureen
    I haven't seen WO 293 yet. I will have a closer look next time.
    The WO 24 series (volumes 900 something) give the war establishments only, which formed only a part of the A.C.I. publications.
    I don't know, why TNA Kew present the WEs separately, though ist is rather practical if you are after WEs. On the other hand, the WEs in WO 24 are definitely not complete.

    Confusing, isn't it?
    :eek:

    Cheers
    Aixman
     
    dbf likes this.
  7. Maureene

    Maureene Well-Known Member

    Thanks Aixman. It would be great If you could check next trip.

    Cheers
    Maureen
     
  8. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    The filing conundrum is probably due to them being files from different WO departments, with the 'Army Council' having a full set as the issuing authority, with extracts kept by the 'War Establishment' people. The other main area where I've seen ACIs referenced is in the area of dress, ranks and appointments, etc.

    That wasn't the main point: some Yeomanry regiments were converted to armoured car regiments in the inter-war period. The County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters) springs to mind. I wouldn't be surprised if their peacetime establishment varied a bit from the published ideal. 1927 is interesting as it's directly after the General Strike. The other angle is that the RA TA was starting to find it harder to hire horses for camps as civvy street mechanised. The urban Yeomanry regiments would have had the same problem, so mechanising some would have been a pragmatic solution and a bit of a recruiting incentive.
     
  9. Aixman

    Aixman WE addict

    @ Maureen:
    You will have to wait till the week after Easter ...
    Sure I'll have some looks.
    :)

    @ Idler:
    The most difficult thing of all at times is to say which regiment, battalion, company, squadron, platoon, troop .... was assigned which war establishment. Of course, sometimes it is obvious, but often not.
    I would be especially glad to receive hints for that conundrum.
    And yes, surely war establishments are only paper. They sometimes contain even explicit remarks concerning the organization that they should be understood only as advice.

    Aixman
     

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