на підтримку України-In Support of Ukraine

Discussion in 'The Barracks' started by CL1, Feb 26, 2022.

  1. Andsco

    Andsco Active Member

    Well spotted. It was amended slightly by Churchill slightly in a speech he gave to parliament in 48 which I felt sounded better in the current situation.
    As Michael says we are not shouting you down we just have a different opinion. Although you seem to be in a minority on this your views are respected, I do understand your concerns and I have no problem with you posting them but please allow us disagree.
    On the history side the point that is trying to be made is that appeasement does not work with dictators like Putin as it didn't in 1938 with the Berlin pact which wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Hitler lied to give himself time to do what he always going to do, and so too is Putin a liar, if you remember at the start of all this he denied he was not going to invade Ukraine even though it was quite obvious he was and now he is denying all the civilian deaths are not his fault, if there's anyone you shouldn't trust it's him

    On another note out of personal interest can I ask how you came about your username.
     
  2. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    Your reply started off respectfully, it's a shame you ended up sounding like a complete pork chop.

    The only people I need protecting from are ideologues like you.
     
  3. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing and I'm not intent on changing anyone's minds.

    With regards to my username, I made it up. Britain supervised her empire as an umpire would supervise a game of cricket. I rather enjoyed the rhyme and the idea of the empire being conducted as one would conduct a game of cricket on an English village oval. A sport that embodies strategy, courage, gentlemanly conduct and ruthlessness.
     
    Andsco likes this.
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    good that we live in a country where we can disagree and call me a complete pork chop (I rather like that)

    Same as the sorts who moan about the police and when anything goes wrong who do they call

    regards
    Complete Pork Chop
     
    Andsco likes this.
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Ukraine war latest news: Russia readying tens of thousands for eastern battle - Zelensky - BBC News

    Summary
    1. President Zelensky says Russia is concentrating tens of thousands of soldiers for its next offensive in eastern Ukraine
    2. Ukraine's president tells lawmakers in South Korea "we need more help if we are to survive this war"
    3. Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer is due to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin for talks in Moscow
    4. Nehammer will become the EU's first leader to meet the Russian president since the start of the war
    5. The UK has warned of a possible use of phosphorus munitions by Russia as fighting intensifies in Mariupol
    6. Ukraine's economy is set to shrink by almost half this year as a result of the war, the World Bank says
    7. The bodies of more than 1,200 people have been found in the Kyiv region, says Ukraine's prosecutor general
     
  6. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    Theres a good lad - Yes, I must be anti police because I disagree with how the West is handling the Ukraine crisis.

    Anyway, you've got your wish - I won't comment any further. Thank you for so respectfully allowing me the freedom of speech you advocate so passionately for.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022 at 12:21 PM
  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron


    just stating the fact that you are free to comment on anything you like without a knock at the door from those that disagree with you

    so you are allowed to call me a complete pork chop because you disagree with me

    I think you tie yourself up in knots

    It works both ways
     
  8. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    I was being respectful, you stated that I should hide under my blanket and be saved by you when Putin comes calling. I called you a pork chop in turn. Let's go our separate ways please.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Don't play the martyr.

    It is unbecoming.
     
  10. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    This was written after 2015 but a good while before the present war. An analysis of the deficencies of the Russian BTG:
    2Fiore17.pdf (army.mil)

    Sounds as if the Ukrainians have a decent chance...
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022 at 1:38 PM
    CL1 and stolpi like this.
  11. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    A blog article by an observer of Whitehall that opens with:
    Link: Thin Pinstriped Line: Have We Overestimated Our Potential Opponents?

    Now whether anyone within the UK government actually asked some questions or concluded as the author does is a moot point.
     
    ltdan and CL1 like this.
  12. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022 at 7:42 AM
    CL1 likes this.
  13. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    I'm not playing the martyr, I've just lost interest.
     
  14. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    do not lose interest
    I assume the way forward is to send arms etc
    Your thoughts on how to end it would be good

    my name is already on the list if it goes the other way
     
    Andsco likes this.
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  16. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    You have presented your position transparently and comprehensibly - which is rare these days and should be respected in any case.
    And I even agree with you on some points.
    But this is what I meant by "our values" - at least as I was taught them: the right to hold dissenting and unpopular views, AND institutions that defend that right.
    This is precisely what distinguishes us from dictatorships, where quite explicitly Thucydides' words apply:
    "the strong do what they will and the weak endure what they must".
     
    Osborne2, Juha, Andreas and 2 others like this.
  17. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    I suspect more classic WWII doctrine in the upcoming drama:
    Massive artillery barrages, immediately followed by equally massive tank packs. Then comes the infantry to mop up.
    The theatre is localised, the logistical routes short, the terrain well suited for operational tank advances.
    A brief glance at the history books is sufficient. The RA does not have a Zhukov, but neither does the UA have a von Manstein.
    And as in the past, losses will not play a role, only results.
    This will be a very big challenge for the UA
     
    Andreas, Andsco and CL1 like this.
  18. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    stolpi, alberk, ltdan and 1 other person like this.
  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022 at 10:30 AM
  20. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. Isn't that - maybe - just a tad simplistic?

    "...then comes the infantry to mop up..."

    One might deduce from the articles posted about the BTGs (and from recent engagements) that the "the infantry" is the problem on the Russian side...
     
    ltdan likes this.

Share This Page