Four Lincolnshire Regiment Casualties

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Robert Kett, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    Screenshot 2022-11-24 at 20.42.50.png
    I am trying to determine where the following four casualties of the 6th Battalion were killed. I know it was during the battle for Salerno and the date of their deaths is 11th September 1943:

    59585882 John Ernest Unwin age 21
    4198700 Peter Touhey age 25
    4800244 William Amos Hudson age 28
    4799206 Roland Ulyatt age 33

    All four were buried in a single grave on the battlefield before later being transferred to the Salerno war cemetery. I posted a picture of this grave under the post for Roland Ulyatt.

    What I would really like to know is which Company they served in; were they all killed together or have they been brought together from different locations.

    I have checked the 1939 Battalion nominal roll (on this forum) but none of the four are listed. I know that Ulyatt served in France in 1940 and was evacuated from Dunkirk. He also served in North Africa with the 1st Army.

    Any assistance would be much appreciated.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  2. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    The first three of these men were initially recorded as Missing Believed Killed, with Ulyatt being recorded as Missing at the same time.

    The war diary mentions a patrol going to Alessia and due to MG fire not being able to recover the wounded for five hours and the battalion campaign summary mentions this being B Company. I had a look at the grave concentration report but the 'previous burial location' does not seem to equate to standard grid references. I'm not sure if anyone else knows a way to map them.

    OR casualties for 6th Lincolns on 11th September:

    upload_2022-12-4_12-22-26.png

    From the campaign summary:

    lincs_salerno_2.JPG

    From War Diary:

    lincs_salerno_3.JPG

    Regards,
    Gary.
     
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  3. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    Hi,
    In addition to the Nominal Roll mentioned, what else have you looked at already - have you been through ClankyPencil offerings at WO 169 10252 0011 | WW2Talk
    and similar?

    Afternote: BZ Gary Tankard
     
  4. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    Thank you. Quite a busy day for the battalion. It could have been at Alessia involving B company. The fact that they were reported missing does suggest that they had perhaps moved forward beyond the battalion lines.
    The list of casualties for the 11th is interesting.
     
  5. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Gary,

    I can help a little bit, but not much:

    Conc Report - Lt Bennett 6 Lincs.png

    26 Grave Registration Unit (the 26/GR mentioned in the "previously buried at" column) landed at Salerno in October 1943 and registered and collected the dead (both British and German I think). I think the "2039" and "2035" references most be report numbers of collected bodies. It looks like the bodies were re-interred on 14 August 1944 by 31 Grave Concentration Unit (report no. in top left hand corner). I think I read somewhere that the cemetery was moved, I'll see if I can find that reference again.

    Regards

    Tom
     
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  6. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    You can see similar 4-digit numbers handwritten in red in this concentration report, this time with standard map references. I guess there may be other concentration reports which include burials reported in "2035" or "2039" that might reveal the map reference?

    Graves Concentration Report 26GR-SJM-C-19 - Salerno 28.11.43.JPG

    Regards

    Tom
     
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  7. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    In terms of records, I have a copy of the 6th Battalion history, which is a little thin but does include most of the interesting extracts from the war diaries. I have been on the CWGC and Forces War records sites. I have also got details from Ancestry UK on the family and residence and consulting with the Royal Anglian museum. WW2 Talk is the latest source for me. I will take a close look at ClankyPencil. Thank you for the link.
     
  8. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    Very interesting. I had not seen such documents before and perhaps undermines my thinking that all four were perhaps killed in the same location. Thank you.
     
  9. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    I have dug a little deeper on this forum and have found a nominal roll in the War Diary for 6 Lincolns for the train journey to Clydeside, prior to embarkation on a ship in January 1943. Two of the four soldiers of interest are listed. 4799206 PTE R Ullyatt is listed under D Company and 4800244 PTE W A Hudson is listed under HQ Company. This does not help very much as all of the comments so far relate to A,B and C companies. I am not sure where D Company was located.

    Just for interest I attach an extract of a map of the Salerno area where 6 Lincolns were operating on 11 September 1943. Usefully, the map has a UTM grid to help pin down some of the reports.

    Screenshot 2022-12-05 at 11.34.41.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Robert,

    Just for your awareness the transfer of personnel between companies was continuous. Unfortunately, the men being in certain companies in January 1943 doesn't mean they were still in those companies nine months later.

    You can see this in WDs that have the Battalion Orders in.

    Regards,
    Gary.
     
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  11. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    Yes, a good point Gary. I note on the nominal roll that I looked at that some men were transferred across to other sub units.
     
  12. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    A bit more research. I went back to the 6th Lincolns history to the day before the four were killed (10th September). I am now concentrating on Pte Roland Ullyatt, whom I now believe was with D (Dog) company. NB, I added the grid references using the map above.

    The History says:

    10th September 1943
    ' The Brigade Commander then ordered the battalion to move as rapidly as possible to Salerno and (a) assist the SS Brigade (Commando Special Service Brigade) in making the Vietri defile (area GR 6131)absolutely secure and (b) secure Salerno from penetration from the north-west'.

    'No transport was available but B Squadron of 40 RTR had been ordered to RV in San Leonardo (The battalion concentration area, which is just inland of the British beaches further south down the coast from Salerno) and lift as many troops as possible forward on their tanks.'

    'The Battalion was then directed towards Salerno, and Baker and Dog companies were ordered to move at once to reinforce the SS Brigade on Dragone Hill (GR 605310) and San Liberatore (GR 615310) respectively. Dog Company were lifted forward on the tanks and Baker by the Carrier and Mortar Platoons and four detachments of the Anti-Tank Platoon'.

    Able and Charlie Companies moved forward into Salerno after, again being shuttled on the Carriers. Baker Company was subsequently moved onto the twin hills of Alessia (GR 625315) and Point 573, securing the right flank. Battalion HQ moved into Vietri (GR6230) and Charlie was then placed in reserve west of the town of Salerno.

    The history continues:
    'It was then agreed that San Liberatore was, in fact, the key to the defile and that Dog (Company) should join elements of 2 Commando there as soon as possible'.

    After a quiet night apart from some shelling and mortaring, the history continues:

    'Early on the 11th of September the enemy strongly attacked 2 Commando....'

    The story is then picked up in the extract above posted by Gary Tankard.

    There is no further reference to Dog Company on the 11th but, given their location opposite Dragone Hill, it is highly likely that they too were engaged that day. I am thus assuming the Roland Ullyatt was killed on or around La Liberatore Hill fighting alongside the Commandos as the German attempted to force the Vietri defile......but we may never know for sure.

    As far as Private William Hudson is concerned, he was with HQ Company, and as the account above relates, HQ Company were being used to shuttle troops all over the area and were supporting the battalion across its front. It is not possible to pin his location down any further.

    Research regarding the fate of Privates Unwin and Touhey will need further work.



     
  13. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion.

    The fact that they were all buried in the same location (from your photo) and were all officially posted as missing strongly suggests they were killed in the same location, at the same time.

    I don't think we will ever be able to 100% be sure what company they were with - the best bet would be to ask the CWGC if they have any records about the original burial site.
     
  14. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Hi Gary,

    I think we really need to understand who took the photo of the joint grave and when. Reading through the war diary of 26 GRU for the late autumn of 1943 there seems to be a doubt, certainly in my mind, that all bodies were moved immediately from where they were found (registered?) straight to the main War Cemetery down on the road north out of Battipaglia. I think "concentration" might also include bodies being reburied near where they were first found - that might explain the different re-burial dates on the two concentration reports on this thread. The first shows a reburial in the "main" war cemetery in August 1944 whereas the 2nd shows reburials in the "main" war cemetery in November 1943, perhaps from an intermediate cemetery. See, for example, the report below which shows re-burials at the main war cemetery from "Red Beach" cemetery. Frustratingly the war diaries for the grave registration units appear to stop in Feb 44 - unless I'm missing a change in terminology when the series changes over from WO169 to WO170.

    Re-burials - from Red Beach Cem - sheet 1.png

    Incidentally, the SJM in the November 1943 report probably indicates the report was completed by Lt. S.J. Muir who was one of the 3 officers in 26 GRU that month. The others being Capt. R.G. Dakin and 2/Lt. J.A. Kellett.

    Intriguingly, the war diary for 13 Dec 43 records 26 GRU obtained a Kodak camera "as per G1098". Obviously used for records of some sort, but whether showing grave markings and location or used more for identifications purposes is unclear.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  15. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member


    Tom,
    I don't know if this helps any further, but I decided to take the picture of the grave out of its card mount to see if there was anything written on the back. Sure enough there is and it says:

    'Graves Registration & Enquiries (Records) C M.F.

    SALERNO (BEACH HEAD)
    CEMETERY

    In pencil in the top R/H corner is 'CMF/9

    Robert
     
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  16. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Robert,

    Thanks for posting those extra details. So it seems to be an official photograph rather than a regimental or family photo. That makes me think that photographs must have been taken as part of the registration and concentration process by the Grave Registration Units and Grave Concentration Units. I wonder if they are held by CWGC. I've not seen any from the Italian theatre before so I don't know if this was standard practice in all theatres.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  17. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    These concentration forms show the process by which outlying cemeteries were cleared and the fatalities were concentrated at Salerno Military Cemetery. For example, Bdr. Locke F.J. from 'D' Troop, 64 Field Regiment, RA was fatally wounded by shell fire on 11 Sep 43 and died of his wounds on 12 Sep 43. These suggest he was evacuated to a medical establishment in 3 Beach Group where he sadly died and was initially buried. Extra information taken from WO169/9488 - war diary of 64 Fd Regt, RA. I think 3 F.D.S. was part of 3 Beach Group so their war diary might tie up with the reference on the 2nd report to Spineta Nuova.

    Graves Concentration Report - 31GCU-SJM-C-68 - 19.4.44.png Concentrations in Salerno Mil cemetery from Spineta Nuova Cem - 3 Beach Group.png

    Regards

    Tom
     
  18. Robert Kett

    Robert Kett Member

    Thanks all for your excellent and helpful contributions. I now understand a great deal more about what occurred to the 6th Lincolnshires at Salerno on 11 September 1943. I am also amazed by the amount of data that is available and this forum has been invaluable.
     
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