Help with service record

Discussion in 'REME/RAOC' started by Linda Martin, May 15, 2022.

  1. Linda Martin

    Linda Martin Member

    I am trying to determine where my uncle was in April 1944. According to his service record he was in the REME, 34 Tank on December 16, ‘43, at Home. Then there is nothing until April 20, 1944 when he goes AWOL for a month, place “Field”. He turned himself in, a court of enquiry was held, and he was charged with desertion. He received 14 days confined to barracks and loss of pay.
    This poor man had mental health problems before going into the army, and reading the psychiatric report in his record it sounds like he suffered from extreme anxiety.

    I’m just trying to figure out if he was in England, or overseas when he deserted?

    Thanks Linda
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi Linda,

    I think you have posted screenshots of scans rather than the scans themselves, and while I am not any good at deciphering service records - I don't think what you posted will be readable to other people on the forums and this will be a barrier to helping you. The text is just too small.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
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  3. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Agreed. I’ve saved them to my iPad and the text is too blurry to read.

    Steve
     
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  4. Linda Martin

    Linda Martin Member

    That is what I did, sorry. Not sure how else to do it as the whole file is 38 pages, that I received via email, and therefore too large to upload?
    Linda
     
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  5. hutt

    hutt Member

    What format did you receive them in and was that original format just as unclear? The forum experts will need the detail to give you the best possible analysis
     
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  6. Linda Martin

    Linda Martin Member

    It came as a PDF from the National Archives and it’s very clear.
    If I printed a page and took a photo of that to upload would that work?
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    yes that will work
     
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  8. hutt

    hutt Member

    Hi Linda.
    That might work although if you had the software another option would be to split the PDF into individual pages. I'm not sure if the forum accepts Pdfs so if it does post those, otherwise save as Jpg. Anyway,try the photo method and do them in good light.
     
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  9. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    If members view it on computer and save it as a PNG file download, it is as clear s one would expect.
    I can see no Embarkation posting but above and below his AWOL note it clearly shows:

    Home
    Field
    UK

    See attached

    If it were Royal Artillery I would go further but as there are people familiar with REME and their Service Records I will wait and see.
    In case you get stuck I will look back later.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Linda Martin

    Linda Martin Member

    Thank you for the response. I saw the Home,Field, UK, so does Field mean overseas?
    I have attached a photo in the hope it’s clearer!
    I have also attached one showing his medical examinations - can anyone explain the the AX1 etc.?
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    As an aside you are getting a far more detailed file from NA than MOD provide. They usually provide less than 10 images and you say you have 30+.

    You wouldn’t get the medical form (Presume B178) from MOD as they won’t release any medical information.

    They would have redacted they disciplinary information provided by NA.

    Steve
     
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  12. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    I can see nothing on these sheets to suggest that he was serving abroad. I would expect to see at least an Embarkation Date sometimes even a reference to a ship or embarkation number. This is often quite prominent as a stamp because it relates to his pay and medal entitlements.
    The Territorials were originally signed up for service in the UK only, so Service Abroad was an extra to their agreement.
    All the Posting locations shown are in the UK Scotland, Northern Ireland or England. Later in the Records you should have a form with a list of postings.

    The reference to Field is telling us that he was tried and sentenced "in the field" by his Senior Officers not tried in a full military court. This is why his sentence was moderate.

    I am not very familiar with all the Form numbers and on some copies they are not visible anyway but I am quite familiar with Service Records as I have transcribed a few dozen quite satisfactorily to date.
    The normal problems lie in the handwriting or jargon used in some Regiments , Corps or Areas of Operation.
    You have not shown anything to date to indicate Foreign Service.

    You would be looking for BEF or France between 1939-40 MEF, ALF SEA or even India for 1941 onwards BNAF 1943/44 CMF 1944-45 and NWE for 1944-45.

    If he was TA Enlisted B200D should give basic details of his Trade Classifications, Medal Entitlement and Statement of Services so give you a good start as to where else in the records to look. B103 part 1 and 2 Service and Casualty Form will provide his Postings and status including any Embarkations abroad.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  13. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Ref the Medical Form portion displayed.
    He was Category A2 so not able to serve in certain roles perhaps someone else on the forum might have these categories to hand.
    I have a person who applied for a Commission to be an officer in the Royal Artillery who found that he was listed as A2.
    He was twice school all round sports champion and very fit, so attended a further medical which found him A1 so he got his commission.
    Not as it turned out the best thing as he was killed in 1944. He was known to be a bit sensitive and very considerate. Perhaps that was seen as a weakness at the start of the war but the need for men was greater after Dunkirk.
    He was captured and escaped, returning to his own lines, did stints as a Forward Observation Officer and was wounded at Anzio but refused evacuation and carried on until his Jeep hit a landmine on a Recce Mission so he was no slouch!

    AX2 Somewhat similar to the coding on the X List which listed men not available for duty due to sickness etc.
    try Searching X List online.
    Perhaps these all add up to his anxiety syndrome.

    Two entries signed by a Captain possibly a Doctor and one by a Lieutenant RAMC
    Then a list of vaccinations. TAB is a Typhoid Vaccination.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  14. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Its raining so I have a bit of time to go through previously purchased Service Records. Your count of 30+ pages is impressive but I can see why.
    It depends on when they were purchased and the Regiment or Corps he was in.
    This might assist other members in this task.

    The most complete sets that I have are from two uncles in the Royal Signals but the clerics treated their records differently.
    This was because the Form B200D was in a large book similar to modern A3 size .
    For one uncle the clerks used an A3 photocopier but for his brother they obviously only had an A4 copier so cut up the the pages so to speak, doubling the number of pages plus a few bits that they missed when placing them on the copier.
    For one uncle they included an extra 12 pages of rules and advice with the introductory letter, they both received the Abbreviations List of 16 pages.
    I am assuming that your records are similar to one of these plus it seems some medical records which are normally restricted but maybe your source knew how to obtain these possibly via freedom of information requests. It may have been an error on the part of the clerks copying them.

    My count of total pages including letters etc is:

    B200D = 5 x A3 or 10+ A4
    B103 = 6 x A4
    1 x Ready for Release Form (Discharge) 1 x A4
    Useful Abbreviations = 16 including Letter
    Rules and various advice / Addresses to contact = 12 x A4

    Total pages 40 or 45 depending on photocopier

    So your mention of 38 pages is not exceptional depending on the extra medical information that you refer to, if you are counting the letter and advisory documents..
     
  15. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

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  16. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Wonderful site this forum, someone always turns up with the answers. After a while you can predict who it will be.
    Thanks AB64.
    Need someone who knows REME jargon to get in deeper.
    I have difficulty with REME and RAOC records both of which are often associated with Royal Artillery to fix the guns and deliver the Ammunition.
    They almost live in a world of their own.
    I am not much of a bookworm thankfully many on here are.
     
  17. Linda Martin

    Linda Martin Member

    Thank you all for the information - I’m getting more informed daily! I had no idea that I seem to have received extra info re medical. This is a newly released scan by the National Archives, who apparently are in the process of getting all service records from the MOD for future release. I was just lucky they have started with the REME records. I did not receive a list of Abbreviations - huge help! My uncle did have flat feet which seemed to feature a lot in his records!
    I had always naively assumed he went AWOL during “battle”, but apparently not! Family rumour had him being punished horrendously by being strapped to a gun carriage, but on researching that it seems like this was “only” done during WW1.
    I do have another question - the postings sheet attached seems to indicate he was in NWE 4/8/44 - 18/8/44, but the other sheet seems to have him going into the 313 Coy 28 July/44 and then a gap until August 19, or am I reading this incorrectly?
    Sadly my uncles mental health deteriorated even more after the war and he was found dead in 1956 after living rough for three weeks, having previously discharged himself from a mental facility. 067F77F7-C07C-417E-8FED-12CA4B7C3D24.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    My reading of the queried entries on the B103 is that he was transferred to Pioneer Corps 17th June with the intention of posting to a POW Company (Guard duty) but that is overwritten and replaced by a posting to 52 RHU - Reinforcement Holding Unit.

    The entry of 28th July 1944 shows a posting from 52 RHU to 313 Company (presumably Pioneer Corps).

    19th August 1944 shows a posting from 313 Company to “12 Centre” - from a recent topic this may be Pioneer Corps 12 Training Centre in Birmingham.

    The following entry muddies the waters by noting a transfer from REME to PC with effect 20th August but may be due to a clerical error or late receipt of the order.

    The statement of services entry is clear about him being in NWE for a fortnight in early/mid August 1944 which roughly ties in with the posting to 313 Company.

    I hesitate to offer an opinion as you have only posted a portion of the papers you’ve received from NA (some of which I can’t read). After many years of looking at service records I’m firmly of the opinion the whole file needs to be read to identify gaps and inconsistencies that can be wrongly inferred from reading of a portion of a file.

    That view was reinforced by reading many hundreds of the Scots Guards WW2 era service files released to FMP last year - many of which had 150+ pages, excluding duplicates/triplicates of some forms. B103 were often in triplicate and I often found inconsistencies in comparing one to another as they were maintained by different personnel at different locations.

    Is there any mention in the papers of his medal entitlement? There is often a dated Army Medal Office stamp showing a date of issue.

    Given the above observations I would say, on the basis of what I’ve read, that if 313 Company PC served overseas in August 1944 I’d say he did serve in NWE and ought to be entitled to a France & Germany Star in addition to the Defence Medal & War Medal.

    If there is no evidence of medals being issued you ought to apply to the Army Medal Office.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
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  19. Linda Martin

    Linda Martin Member

    Thank you Steve. I can’t see any reference to medals, perhaps because at one point he deserted?
    I definitely have a better understanding of the documents thanks to the knowledgeable people on this forum!
     
  20. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You’re welcome.

    One instance of desertion wouldn’t be enough to rule out the issue of his campaign medals.

    You ought to apply to MOD Medal Office as WW2 Campaign medals are still being issued. Staff there will review the service record and make an assessment of his entitlement.

    Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility

    Steve
     

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