Service Records - HELP!

Hi all

New to this site so forgive me if the answers to my query are hidden away in another part of the forum.

I'm looking into the service history of my grandfathers two older brothers.

I'm looking for help deciphering their records.

In respect of PERCY, I'm sure this is a TA record but not sure. There is pencil scribble of something under his service number. Also, there is a date 16.3.46 2/F?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

In respect of BERTIE, again, I think there is a TA record plus a full military record. Also, under his service number (full military) is has the initial F.S.

Kind Regards and Merry Christmas

Adam

 

Hi Adam and welcome

Firstly, none of the above are either TA or service records of any sort, they are details from the RA attestation books as both seem to have been in the Army prior to WW2 and especially in Percy's case he re-enlisted (16th Jan 1939). Bertie seems to have been transferred to Light Anti Aircraft (LAA) on the 1942 date and later transferred again to Royal Scots in Aug 1944 - this may have been due to shortages in infantry numbers and the declining need for LAA units. Their full service records should explain all

What you need to do is obtain their full military service records and these are only available from the MOD the forms can be found here Request records of deceased service personnel, you can fill in the Next of kin forms as opposed to the General Enquirer forms

TD

 

UK, World War II Royal Artillery Tracer Cards, 1939-1948
Name: Percy Robert Piper
Enlistment Date: 19 Nov 1934
Discharge Date: 18 Nov 1938
Regiment: Royal Artillery
Military Unit: 58 Medium Bde RA
Service Number: 841428


So he discharged in Nov 1938 and re-enlisted Jan 1939

TD

At present cant find a Tracer Card for Bertie - do you have his full/christian name?

Is this Bertie?
England and Wales, Death Index, 1989-2019
Name: Mr Bertie Harold Piper
Gender: Male
Age: 88
Birth Date: 10 Sep 1920
Last Residence: Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Postal Code District: IP2
Death Date: 27 Mar 2008

 

Both men do have entries relating to TA Regulations,

Percy Paracraph 204 (12) - Which is "having been convicted b civil power of ..."
Bertie Paragraph 204 (1) - which is "Termination of Engagement"

 

Hi TD. Thanks for your help. That is indeed Bertie. With regards to Percy, I assume he did his 4 fours, left, then re-enlisted?? I found this online -
58 (Suffolk) Med Regt

TA


Ipswich 1938
France 1940 - GHQ Troops
UK 1940-2 - Southern Comd, 1 AGRA
N Africa 1943 - 1 AGRA
Italy 1943-5 - 1 AGRA

358 Med Regt

Ties in with Ipswich?

Regards

 

For service records and what they look like I dont think the member will mind but this is an example - use the left & right keys to run through the images

Harry Salt Service Records | WW2Talk

TD

 

Thanks TD. Those Tracer Cards are quite difficult to piece together (for me anyway). Any luck with Bertie??

I'll need to speak with my grandfather re applying for service records as unsure if he is in communication with next of kin.

Is it worth sending of as General Enquirer? Is the level of detail any good??

Regards

 

If your grandfather is alive the ask him to send off for the records - or at least fill in the forms for him and ask him to sign the forms - use the next of kin forms as he is basically next of kin and there are grades of NOK on the form

No more on Bertie but you need to have a copy of their death certificates to include with the forms when you send them off

TD

 

It's 2/T or Z/T (can never remember which) and means Discharged and transferred to the Reserves.

Tim

 

Quick question re BERTIE.

He has service # 881088 on one document and 1102934 on another?

When applying for records which shoud I use? Are they even the same man?

My grandfather has said they BERTIE certainly had run ins with the law - a bit of a lad! (which ties in with the PARA 204 {12} on the first document. Could this have something to do with it

 

The forms state

"* SERVICE NUMBER AND/OR DATE OF BIRTH MUST BE INCLUDED"

Just ensure you include the date of birth - you dont need to include the service number for either - you will normally find a date of birth included on the death certificate so that will be covered

TD

 

Tricky Dicky - regarding the request forms. My grandfather isn't technically 'immediate' NOK. Both spouses have since passed but I believe sons/daughters are still about plus I'm sure there are grandchildren. Both these relations sit above 'Brother/Sister' in the list. Can he still apply this way even if he isn't 'immediate' NOK?

 

The form states:

Read the list below and when you come to the first living relative of the deceased subject
place an ‘X’ in the box and write their full name next to it. This process will enable you to
identify the person who the MOD will regard as the immediate Next of Kin.

Spouse / Civil Partner
Son / Daughter
Grandchild
Father / Mother
Brother / Sister
Nephew / Niece
Grandparent
Other (specify)

This actually shows you could do the forms yourself as - Other - your father can also write here 'Uncle'

TD

 

Hi all

Re. the tracer card for PERCY - can anyone shed any light as to what REMJB and BMME means?

Could the BMME mean British Military Mission to Ethiopia with the EA initials noted below meaning East Africa??

Kind regards

 

REMJB is known as a draft code and is used to mark everything and everyone travelling on a particular ship at a particular time sort of a flight code as we know today. It is a random set of letters, if you use the search engine it has been mentioned many times

BMME - personally I'm not sure - I would guess B = British, ME could = Middle East

The EA I dont think relates to East Africa

Having said that is there a reason why you believe he would be in Ethiopia ??, it is in 1944 if I read that correctly so there wasnt that much happeening in either North or East Africa militarily

TD

 

Grandfather has mentioned Ethiopia before although he wasn't certain. I searched WW2 BMME and found that information on Ethiopia.

It also mentions MEF at the bottom - Middle Eastern Force?

I could be putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 5.

Regards

 

He could have been sent to Ethiopia as part of the interim Anglo-Ethiopian Agreement signed in 1942.

 

Names changed quite a bit around that part of the world - BNAF, CMF, MEF

TD

 

Hi all

Finally received the service records for Bertie (my granddad's brother).

I wanted to post up the TA records first and wondered if you kind people could assist in deciphering?

My plan is to pass the records onto my granddad and Berties sons once they have been deciphered.

Many thanks and kindest regards,

Adam

 

Unfortunately
there is not a great deal if information on those forms, they are very incomplete, did you receive any more? Particularly the Service and casualty form B103?

You already know that he was with the LAA and Royal Scots in your other post:
Service Records - HELP!

If you have other forms then post them so that members can see them, try and post complete pages the right way around.