Pearl Harbor Anniversary

Commentary: Was American WWII Bombing Democide?


Courtesy TTH:
How can we not have a jokes thread?

 

Dec 8, Churchill announces a state of war exists with the Empire of Japan, where he noted a "curious form" that it was the Japanese "High Command" and not the Japanese government that previously declared war on the British Empire and attacked their territories.

A few questions.

I notice that it is the Head of Government of the United Kingdom et al, Churchill, that made the announcement of the declaration of war against the Empire of Japan.

1. Was declaration of war a unilateral decision by the Prime Minister and Parliament, or did the PM consult the Head of State, King George VI, for agreement prior to a vote and/or public declaration?

2. Does the PM have to bring a vote before Parliament or could he have made the decision with his cabinet?

3. If there was a vote in Parliament, was the vote only in the House of Commons, or did the House of Lords also vote? If so, does it really matter which way the HoL voted? Was the HoC vote be the only vote that mattered?

3. Could the King (or Queen as it is today) request a declaration of war? And if so, how is it done?

 

War With Japan - Hansard - UK Parliament
Winston Churchill
As soon as I heard, last night, that Japan had attacked the United States, I felt it necessary that Parliament should be immediately summoned. It is indispensable to our system of government that Parliament should play its full part in all the important acts of State and at all the crucial moments of the war; and I am glad to see that so many Members have been able to be in their places, despite the shortness of the notice. With the full approval of the nation, and of the Empire, I pledged the word of Great Britain, about a month ago, that should the United States be involved in war with Japan, a British declaration of war would follow within the hour. I, therefore, spoke to President Roosevelt on the Atlantic telephone last night, with a view to arranging the timing of our respective declarations. The President told me that he would this morning send a Message to Congress, which, of course, as is well known, can alone make a declaration of war on behalf of the United States, and I then assured him that we would follow immediately.
However, it soon appeared that British territory in Malaya had also been the object of Japanese attack, and later on it was announced, from Tokyo, that the Japanese High Command—a curious form; not the Imperial Japanese Government—had declared that a state of war existed with Great Britain and the United States. That being so, there was no need to wait for the declaration by Congress. American time is very nearly six hours behind ours. The Cabinet, therefore, which met at 12.30 to-day, authorised an immediate declaration of war upon Japan. Instructions were sent to His Majesty's Ambassador at Tokyo, and a communication was despatched to the Japanese Chargé de Affaires at 1 o'clock to-day to this effect:

 

Great questions Jeff and I confess, never having really been into politics at all, to saying “I’ve not got a bloody clue” to most of them . I’d love to know the answers myself.

The only one I can say with is a “no” (and I’m probably on shaky ground even here, given my ignorance) is your 4th question as the monarch here has no political power, as far as I know, and is not expected to interfere. It is a constitutional monarchy and the real power belongs to Parliament.

The Queen signs off on Bills I believe but I think her signing/approving them seems to be just a formality really. I do wonder what would happen if she said “I’m not bleeding signing that!”. I’m not even sure they’re allowed to have political opinions or, more accurately, they’re not supposed to voice them publicly.

The role of the Monarchy

Parliament and Crown - UK Parliament

https://www.theweek.co.uk/royal-family/97645/how-much-power-does-the-royal-family-have

However, as I say, I am really very much in the dark myself about how it all works here, so I’m sure someone here much more knowledgeable than myself (of which there are many lol) will put me straight and provide answers to all your questions.

 

" The Contracting Powers recognize that hostilities between them must not commence without a previous and explicit warning in the form of either a declaration of war, giving reasons, or an ultimatum with a conditional declaration of war." Article 1 of the International Convention Relative to the Opening of Hostilities Signed at The Hague, 18th October, 1907. { British Ratification deposited at The Hague, 27th November, 1909.}

The Convention is printed in the "Manual of Military Law" (HMSO) reprinted in 1940 on page 367 as Appendix 5. Other nations which had ratified were Germany, United States, together with France and Japan, amongst others. ( It is widely available online.)

As for the modern law there is a UK Parliament briefing paper prepared in May 2018 available online ( 1MB download ) which includes a brief history of the commencement of hostilities in WW2 without referring to the above Convention or Pearl Harbour.

So much for infamy !

"The Queens Regulations for the Army state:
'The government and command of each of the fighting services is vested in Her Majesty The Queen, who has charged the Secretary of State with general responsibility for the defence of the Realm and established a Defence Council having command and administration over Her armed forces.

In the event of a declaration of war or the commitment of British forces to military action, constitutional convention requires that authorisation is given by the Prime Minister, on behalf of the Crown.

Decisions on military action are taken within the Cabinet with advice from, among others, the National Security Council6 and the Chief of the Defence Staff.

While the Defence Council is a legal entity, in practical terms it plays a very limited role in such decisions.

In constitutional terms, therefore, Parliament has no legally established role in the deployment of the Armed Forces and the Government is under no legal obligation with respect to its conduct, including keeping Parliament informed.

In practice however, successive Governments have consulted and informed the House of Commons about the decision to use force and the progress of military campaigns.

This has been achieved primarily through statements to the House, questions and debates."

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7166/CBP-7166.pdf

 

So essentially, the PM advises the Crown that war is about to be declared, the notifies Parliament of the fact.

Would it be safe to assume, then, that Churchill consulted with NSC and Chief of the Defense Staff, then contacted KG VI, either in person or by some other proxy, that he was about to announce the commencement of a state of war with Japan and then met with the H of C to announce that war had been declared and that the H of L was notified by some other means afterwards?

 

Australian Archives have a number of files downloadable online: search for "Declaration of war" limited to 1941 to 1941.

Item with barcode: 232370 is very useful ( 24.1 MB download ). This has a "Chart of the Nations at War" at page 2. At Page 14 it says:

"United Kingdom and Japan. On December 8, 1941, the U.K. Cabinet authorised an immediate declaration of war on Japan."
(see screenshot attached.)

The involvement of the crown is outlined in all sorts of copy telegrams on other downloadable files in which the UK government civil servants just refer to "King", without the definite article, which is new to me. We refer to "the Queen" these days.

 

Story Item from a provincial newspaper
Pearl Harbour: Day of infamy which changed history

had not heard of this before
6. TRAGEDY OF THE TRAPPED

Three sailors, aged 18, 20, and 21, were trapped in an air pocket in the sunken USS West Virginia and their banging on the hull was to haunt those who heard it. Sadly there was no way to rescue them and when the wreck was salvaged six months later the bodies were recovered along with a calendar on which 16 days had been crossed off.

Pearl Harbour: Day of infamy which changed history

 

I'll make my yearly gripe.

It's a proper noun - Pearl Harbor, not Pearl Harbour.

Feel free to talk about the harbour at Oahu, but the morons at that paper need to learn how to spell proper names correctly.

It would be like me insisting on spelling Geoff as I spell my name.

 

Infamy infamy they have all got it infamy

 

The Bomb - S1.4 Pearl Harbour - BBC Sounds

Harbour ;-)

An attack on Pearl Harbour changes everything. After a surprise Japanese attack destroys US ships, the US declares war on Japan, and intensifies its efforts to create the first nuclear bomb. Caught in the middle of it all, Leo Szilard starts to lose his grip on the project.

 

My favorite Pearl Harbor trivia relates to the leasing of the harbor for the USN. They didn't lease any ground around the harbor.

 

Remembering 7th December 1941 Pearl Harbor

https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/pearl-harbor-fact-sheet-1.pdf

 

From Japanese sources, a report about the attack.



Downloadable here:

United Nations War Crimes Commission
Transcripts of Proceedings and Documents of the IMTFE (Tokyo Trials): Court Exhibits

Document No. 1627, Exhibit No. 1265

https://www.legal-tools.org/doc/acc575/pdf

 

Fuchida's Map for the Japanese Emperor...

Story Map Cascade

 

Just watched a superb programme about the 'Killer Subs in Pearl Harbor' never seen, or heard anything about that before ! Very Interesting !

 

How many kills did the program credit the subs with? Sakamaki was framed!

 

Let us not forget what happened 82 years ago

 

7th December 1941

Attack on Pearl Harbor - Wikipedia