Varsity: C47 crash with British paras

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by alberk, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    I did the same thing looking at the video clip. I believe the soldiers seen are all gliderborne. They have small packs on their back which I’m sure parachutists didn’t have (as the Parachute was there) happy to be proved wrong on that point. I spotted a 3 inch mortar in the clip as the men are organising, And as Herr Berkel said I pointed out the size of the area behind them with unrestricted views which makes me think it might be LZ P or R?
    Alex.
     
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  2. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    That’s not to say it isn’t DZ A, if the camera was at the X I placed on your map and the aircraft flew on the line there’s a good line of site? Also the small square wood on DZ A could be seen (as looks like it or one similar in the video clip)
    Just a thought / guess.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Cee, that is an amazing photo. I think that the trees are lining the main road which was the western boundary of DZ "A". I am speculating wildly now but on this aerial taken on March 25th there is still something burning just west of the road. Smoke is also rising from the house (Hingendahls Hof) but there is another source of smoke.
    Ellern.png
     
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  4. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    This is Canadian Army Newsreel No 67 - the images of the airborne landing were definitely shot on DZ "A". At TC 08:45 some 3 inch mortars are to be seen. At TC 08:52 there is something burning intensely. I cannot make up my mind whether the white structure in these latter frames is the road or the small rivulet "Watt Ley / Bislicher Ley". If it is the rivulet the camera operator took these images after the fight - he must have walked a bit west from Bergerfurth... I grew up and used to play there as a boy, but the images in the newsreel are still a bit of a puzzle for me...
     
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  5. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

  6. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    The Canadians lost a Bren Carrier just about there, it was the vehicle that Fred Topham pulled 3 survivors from to get his VC, so it may be that. It does look on the road or at least on the verge?
     
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  7. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Alex1975uk - the carrier that was hit is mentioned here in this (and another) appendix to 1 CPB's war diary - the grid reference corresponds to the location near Hingendahlshof.
    WD 1 CPB.png
    Can you tell me what "MR" stands for in the last sentence of the first paragraph?
     
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  8. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Map Reference.
    Nowadays we say Grid Reference.
     
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  9. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    alberk,

    I recognized one of the dead German soldiers (8:59) in Canadian Army Newsreel #67 as he also turns up in a photo by Sgt. Dennis Smith, 5 AFPU. But let's back up a bit and cover some familiar ground. In the cluster of clips in your Wesel documentary there is one scene that shows a British Airborne medic helping German POWs move their wounded comrade onto a stretcher. This is another example of the photographer and his cine partner shooting the same scene.

    WESEL 1933 bis 1945 in Schutt und Asche_24.36.jpg BU 2345.jpg

    Photo BU2345 was taken by Sgt.Smith and in the next photo BU2346 he actually captures his cine partner. I checked around and figure this is Sgt. Peter Whitaker as he was in the area near Jockern at one point according to the IWM. This pair was actually following units of the 15th Scottish Infantry Division. Smith is sometime listed as being with the 6th KOSB in his photos.

    BU 2346-1.png BU8370 - Sgt. P. Whitaker.jpg


    In a previous photo by Smith (BU2343) taken just up the road a number of dead German soldiers can be seen with one survivor which I won't post here. Amongst them is the young soldier pointed out in the Canadian film. In the background the buildings of Bergerfurth can be seen. As you probably know those photos were taken on a road that has since been closed off and no longer exists - see aerial. Photo BU2344 also shows two German casualties possibly on same road.

    Bergerfurth Locations.jpg

    Without going into detail the link-up scene between Army and Airborne as seen in # 67 and your Wesel doc were also taken by two different cinematographers at same time. A Canadian cameraman and possibly Sgt. Peter Whitaker. Is that where the short road into south Bergerfurth meets the Bergen Road?

    Canadian Army Newsreel, No. 67 (1945)_09.09].jpg WESEL 1933 bis 1945 in Schutt und Asche_24.15.jpg

    Regards ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  10. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Cee, you're connecting quite a number of dots here. All very plausible and correct. Having grown up in Bergerfurth and with my interest in the subject reaching back some 45 years I know the photos and the location. The info on the names of the cine-/photography team was new to me - thank you for that. The connection between stills and scenes in moving images is seen very often. So you're right about that, too.

    When I was a boy that road was the only proper one leading from Bergerfurth toward Bislich and the Rhine. There was a smaller one a bit further south leading through the Jöckern area but that was tree lined where it hit the main road and there are no buildings in the vicinity with the exception of a small farmhouse. So your assumption is correct.

    The Germans were shot up by Canadian machine guns - they were a larger group of stragglers fleeing from the Rhine and we have a good German eyewitness account from one of them about what went on there that day. They discussed what to do in a farm at some distance from Bergerfurth. The more fanatical ones gained the upper hand and decided to rush for the little road bridge across the rivulet called "Watt Ley". That is where they met their fate and where the photos were taken later. Here's the Canadian perspective from the war diary appendix contributed by the Vickers platoon: Bergerfurth bridge.png

    Best,
    Alex
     
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  11. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

  12. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    "... these guys?" it should say. Anyway, again it shows (not surprisingly) how very staged these images are!
     
  13. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Hi,

    There is a marvellous clip in the Wesel documentary which captures a Horsa as it swoops in to land. Its port wing almost touches the ground before straightening out. In the background another glider can be seen and to the right the very same clump of trees that also shows up in the flaming Dakota clip.

    The Paratroopers have left the area leaving behind their discarded chutes. I believe this is just one of several scenes captured by the same cameraman possibly from the eastern end of DZ 'A' near a farm off Stallmannsweg. He could be shooting from the border of an orchard? See attached stitch of clip which gives a wide view of area. Forum software may reduce its length?

    WeseL Doc - Stitich Horsa Landing.jpg

    Just a theory at the moment and it could end up being another location entirely. Thought it might be a fun thing to view nevertheless.

    Regards ...
     
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  14. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Cee, good work! Yes, you are right, there are parachutes on the ground.

    I wrote to the Wesel archives and asked to take a look at the full IWM films we ordered back then. I also asked for the reel numbers - that may help to find out who filmed it.

    Best,
    Alex
     
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  15. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    I suggested something similar here Cee its a matter now of ID of the lop sided square wood. Possibly Nicklins wood.
     
  16. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

  17. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

  18. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    When I saw the footage of the glider landing I did think it might be here (red arrow for flight line) as I knew back in 1945 the handle of axe handle wood was only a strip of trees.
    Thoughts?
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    I think this is quite plausible...
     
  20. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    alberk,

    Thank you for the aerials, very helpful. Seeing how the gliders are sitting in the far eastern field near Stallmannshof I am less confident now of my location. It takes a real stretch of the imagination to make things line up. I can see what Alex is suggesting and that is a possibility as well.

    There is another glider scene which could be part of the same cluster? It shows men at the port door of a Horsa unloading just after landing. I'm not sure of their location other than to say the trees seem the same kind as those in landing clip.

    WESEL 1933 bis 1945 in Schutt und Asche. -23.37].jpg

    Regards ...
     
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