My grandad's WW2 RN personnel record... confused!

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by steved3811, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. steved3811

    steved3811 Member

    I've just received my grandad's RN personnel records which was a lovely surprise as I wasn't expecting them for a few months yet!

    Unfortunately, the information seems to pose more questions than it answers...

    Together with the letter from Navy Command, I've received his Record of Service, Medal Entitlement and the Pay & Victual trace. The latter consists of a two page summary report showing his postings, and it is this that is confusing me.

    It shows he was first posted to "HMS Loch Eribol" in Scotland as a Seaman Steward on 23/11/40 and then for numerous other periods during the war.
    I know Loch Eriboll was a popular anchorage for RN warships before and during the war, but I can't seem to find any record of there being an actual naval facility.

    Also, the reference to "HMS Beaver" appears for a day here and there, and a few weeks in February 1942. But Beaver (Loch Eriboll) and Beaver 2 appear on the original form. Does this mean that Loch Eriboll came under the control of the shore establishment HMS Beaver?

    Family lore suggested that my grandfather served on the submarine HMS Sceptre during the war, but looking at this report it looks like the only part that was correct was the location!

    If any naval experts can shed a little light on the attached documents, it would be greatly appreciated.

    best regards
    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

  2. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    It may be a minesweeper as he was awarded the RNPS M/S badge in 1941 (look at my avatar to see what it looks like)

    hms Europa was the minesweeping base

    he earnt the 1939-45 star, Atlantic Star with France and Germany Clasp and War Medal
    Hms Loch Eribol is definitely a ship as he earnt the 39-45 star on her.

    I have a complete book of ships at home so will look later for you

    regards

    james
     
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Is this the same ship?
    https://fas.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/NavalAccidents1945-1988.pdf
    10/12/45: The Royal Navy vessel HMS
    Loch Eriboll sinks after colliding with
    the U.S. merchant ship Sidney Sharman
    in the English Channel off Start Point,
    U.K

    As its a US site I guess the date should be 12th Oct 1945

    http://commsmuseum.co.uk/dykes/navalaccidents/naval accidents.pdf
    12/Oct/45 The Royal Navy vessel HMS Loch Eriboll sinks after colliding
    with the U.S. merchant ship Sidney Sharman in the English
    Channel off Start Point, U.K.
    Loch Class were frigates


    TD
     
    timuk likes this.
  4. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Hms loch eribol was a trawler, purchased as a minesweeper aug 1939, sunk 12/10/45 in collision with Sidney Sherman off Start point

    if you can send me clearer images I will look up the other ship names

    regards

    James
     
  5. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    It wasn’t a loch class frigate, I did think it was the loch class frigate but could find no record of it

    it was a Trawler as per JJ Colledge warships book2

    regards

    james
     
  6. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    your grandfather was originally in the seaman branch as evidenced by his JX number and rating of Seaman Steward

    he transferred to the steward branch later as evidenced by his new LX number and rating of Steward

    his port division would be LT for Lowestoft and being a member of the RNPS

    there is still a RNPS museum at the former HMS Europa google it


    Hms Beaver was mine sweeper base hull and Grimsby

    hms Europa was minesweeper base at Lowestoft

    hms wildfire was base at sheerness in Kent

    hms ombra was a shore base in Swansea

    hms Loch eribol was a trawler he was on it from 23/11/40-21/1/44

    He was then back to HmS Europa 22/1/44- 11/8/44

    then assigned hms Jeanie Deans 12/8/44-17/4/45 he was promoted to leading steward whilst on board, this was a paddle steamer hired as a mine sweeper and used as a AA ship

    The back to Europa 17/4/45-14/7/45

    then to hms butser 15/7/45-5/9/45 this was a anti submarine vessel
    Then hms colombo was a depot in Devonport 6/9/45

    then back to butser where discharged 31/10/45

    I hope this helps

    he was on minesweepers and anti submarine vessels

    RNPS was A/S and M/S

    regards

    james
     
  7. steved3811

    steved3811 Member

    Thanks so much for the information. This is invaluable in piecing it all together.

    Best regards
    Steve
     
  8. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

  9. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Tim the fact he was on it less than 1 month before being posted to his previous ship.

    the medal card states he was on the same ship from 1940-44, and as hms ombrel was only used short term could mean a shore course or leave

    but will check my books again.
     
  10. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Just checked and ombra is also a armed yacht purchased in 1939 and sold 1945 served as a Dan layer ww2 so he may have been on this vessel or at the shore base,

    that’s the trouble with naming the bases and ships same name at same time
     
    timuk likes this.
  11. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    James,
    Slightly off thread but could you see what your book says about HMS Lucifer as I have it in my head that this was the name of the Swansea base.
    Thanks,
    Tim
     
  12. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Will take a look later as on nights

    I think there was a ship of same name
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Royal Navy Casualties, killed and died, July 1940
    Thursday, 25 July 1940
    Lucifer, Swansea, shore establishment
    ASHTON, Owen H, Ordinary Seaman, RNPS, LT/JX 198778, died


    WW2 Royal Navy records decipher (World War Two) Page 1 RootsChat.Com
    HMS LUCIFER, naval base in Swansea was home to a minesweeping trawler fleet whose main function was to safeguard crucial British shipping lanes by keeping the Bristol Channel clear of mines.


    TD

    Hidden History: 108 The Colonial Building
    During the last war the Colonial Building was an annexe for the naval headquarters HMS Lucifer at the Old Guildhall (now the Dylan Thomas Centre). It was used as a dormitory for seamen on minesweepers or coastal defence vessels.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
    timuk likes this.
  14. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    The only vessel named HMS Lucifer was a Ww1 destroyer it was scrapped in 1921

    there were older ones but the above was the most recent vessel in terms of ww2
     
  15. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Royal Navy, Western Approaches Command 1939-1945
    This confirms that the Naval Base at Swansea was HMS Lucifer. Now I'm a little confused as regards HMS Ombra - were there two bases at Swansea or is this quote an error?
    Tim
     
  16. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    There may be loads as each base was responsible for different things, look at Portsmouth

    I will recheck my copy of shore establishments of the Royal Navy and see how many were based in swansea
     
  17. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    HMS Butser, Hills class anti submarine trawler that spent most of its war in West African waters but back home by June 1945.
    [​IMG]

    HMS Colombo was a WW1 C Class cruiser converted to an AA ship in 1942/43 and spent most of the remainder of the war in the Med. She returned to Britain in April 1945 and went to reserve in June to be stripped of useable equipment for new ships.
     
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