Carriers

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by canuck, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    air.jpg
     
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  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Interesting that they have an example of the Japanese "non-carrier" on there.

    Hyūga-class helicopter destroyer - Wikipedia

    And also that: Izumo-class helicopter destroyer - Wikipedia

    ...the name Kaga was chosen for the latest one: JS Kaga - Wikipedia

    Laid down: 7 October 2013
    Launched: 27 August 2015
    Commissioned: March 2017

    Sadly this was relatively recent:

    Former Portsmouth-based aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious sold for scrap
    August 2016
    Former Portsmouth-based aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious sold for scrap - BBC News

    The MoD said: "While a number of bids were received, none proved to be viable."
    & "It said the ship had been sold to a Turkish ship recycling company, raising about £2m for the ministry."

    Not so Illustrious really...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    War College (Reuters podcast).... War College Podcast | Reuters.com

    Or... War College

    Which (format) I find far easier to quickly scan through (for individual episodes)...

    Recently had this...

    The Age of the Aircraft Carrier may be over...
    "The United States has more aircraft carriers than any other country. Depending on what you call an aircraft carrier, it's 10 times as many. So why don't more countries have more carriers? Maybe they aren't such a great idea, anymore."
    The age of the aircraft carrier may be over from War College
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  4. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  6. Puttenham

    Puttenham Well-Known Member

    Time to make the Royal Navy great again. :sailor:




    PUT:cowboy_125:
     
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    From the start of the war, carriers and capital battleships were shown to be outdated without aerial defensive cover....others lacking anti submarine screening also paid the price

    While carriers are still on inventories,there is always the risk that during an engagement,superior air power might have to be contended with.....an expensive asset to lose.
     
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Not sure if there was much explanation (ever?) as to why Germany so needed this:

    German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]

    As early as the order was put in:
    "On 16 November 1935, the contract for Flugzeugträger A (Aircraft carrier A)—later christened Graf Zeppelin—was awarded to the Deutsche Werke shipyard in Kiel."

    Must have just added to the general cause for concern, for the future etc. among naval intelligence.

    Though wiki at the mo. has "She was the only aircraft carrier launched by Germany and represented part of the Kriegsmarine's attempt to create a well-balanced oceangoing fleet, capable of projecting German naval power far beyond the narrow confines of the Baltic and North Seas. The carrier would have had a complement of 42 fighters and dive bombers."

    Another white elephant though, in the event.

    Its further fate also helping to show, perhaps, where things were heading as regards post-war Soviet relations with the West:

    "Fate after the war

    The carrier's history and fate after Germany's surrender was unknown outside the Soviet Union for decades after the war. The Soviets could not repair the ship in the length of time specified by the terms of the Allied Tripartite Commission, so she was designated a "Category C" ship. This classification required that she would be destroyed or sunk in deep water by 15 August 1946.[23] Instead, the Soviets decided to salvage the damaged ship and it was refloated in March 1946. A number of speculations from Western historians about the ship's fate arose in the decades after the end of the war. According to German historian Erich Gröner, after the Soviets raised the scuttled ship, they towed her to Leningrad. While en route, she reportedly struck a mine off Finland during a storm. After arriving in Leningrad, Graf Zeppelin was broken up for scrap in 1948–1949.[12] Naval historians Robert Gardiner and Roger Chesneau state that the ship was towed out of Stettin in September 1947, but she never arrived in Leningrad; they speculated that a mine sank the ship while she was under tow."

    And...

    Discovery in 2006
    The exact position of the wreck was unknown for decades. On 12 July 2006, the research vessel RV St. Barbara, a ship belonging to the Polish oil companyPetrobaltic, found a 265-meter-long (869 ft) wreck 55 km (34 mi) north of Władysławowo, which they thought was most likely Graf Zeppelin. The wreck rests at a depth of more than 80 m (260 ft) below the surface. After the wreck was located, the Polish Navy began a two-day survey of the wreckage to confirm its identity. Using remote-controlled underwater robots, they concluded that they were "99% certain" it was Graf Zeppelin.

    So there's 1% doubt :wacko:;):)

     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  9. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Did an American CV or CVL carrier ever dock in the UK during WWII? Might be stupid question but it won't be my first.
     
  10. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    For USS Ranger (CV4)...

    USS Ranger (CV-4) - Wikipedia

    Wiki - for instance - has...

    "She patrolled and trained pilots along the New England coast steaming as far north as Halifax, Nova Scotia.[63] Departing from Halifax on 11 August,[64] she joined the British Home Fleet at Scapa Flow, Scotland, on 19 August, with which she patrolled the approaches to the British Isles."

    And... Action on the USS Ranger - Air Group 4

    ---

    USS Ranger (CV 4) of the US Navy - American Aircraft carrier of the Ranger class - Allied Warships of WWII - uboat.net

    Has...

    "Notable events involving Ranger include: 2 Sep 1943
    HMS Tantivy (Cdr. M.G. Rimington, DSO, RN) conducted attack exercises at/off Scapa Flow with USS Ranger (Capt. G. Rowe, USN) that was escorted by USS Forrest (T/Cdr. K.P. Letts, USN), USS Hobson (Lt.Cdr. K. Loveland, USN) and USS Corry (T/Cdr. L.B. Ensey, USN). (1)
    Sources: ADM 173/18199
    ADM numbers indicate documents at the British National Archives at Kew, London."
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  11. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  12. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Thanks. I figured if one was there it would be the Ranger. Navy was never happy with her design as a fleet carrier and used her more in escort carrier role.
     
  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There is also a wiki on... Atlantic Theater aircraft carrier operations during World War II - Wikipedia

    Having a quick glance through there are some US carriers mentioned variously mainly CVE's though, I think, rather than CV and CVL's and those CVE's for example USS Tulagi, and USS Kasaan Bay - Mediterranean rather than UK waters. Something still might "turn up" though ;-)

    e.g. USS Tulagi - Wikipedia

    Has... USS "Tulagi visited Malta on 26 July 1944 and then spent the following weeks conducting exercises, which included a dress rehearsal out of African and Italian ports for the coming Operation Dragoon, the invasion of southern France"
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  14. Orwell1984

    Orwell1984 Senior Member

    .
    USS Wasp did as well
    [​IMG]

    There was also Operation Calendar: Operation Calendar - Wikipedia

    And then Wasp was also docked at Glasgow during the same time period to pick up Spitfires to deliver to Malta as part of the later Operation Bowery .
    Operation Bowery - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  15. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Thanks. I feel I have a very tiny connection to the Wasp. I posted about working with a man who was on the USS Landsdowne when she fired the final torpedos into her. I remember how happy he was when I started rambling on about the USS Kearny after he said he learned about steam equipment when he was on destroyers in WWII.

    We were riding through the cornfields of Indiana to put some steam recovery equipment into Pendleton Penitentiary. Very scary place that looked like it came right out a 1930s Jimmy Cagney movie.

    What have you learned about WW2 recently?
     
  16. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Last year I spent 7 relaxing days on board the good ship Oasis Of The Seas.

    She weighed in at an impressive 226,838 tonnes.

    That's nearly 4 times the weight of the new HMS QE.

    Gus
     
  17. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    A couple of US CVE visited U.K. ports while ferrying aircraft in the early part of 1944 e.g.
    Core to Liverpool and Glasgow
    Core

    Bogue to Glasgow
    Bogue

    The majority of the CVE were built on the US west coast and served in the Pacific. Only a few of the Bogue class and a handful of Casablancas saw service in the Atlantic and none of the later Commencement Bay class. After Operation Torch the 4 Sangamon class also went to the Pacific.

    The big fleet CV of the Essex class and the Independence class CVL were built on the east coast but after work up in the Caribbean departed for the Pacific.

    As noted, amongst the fleet CV, only Wasp (CV-7 not CV-18) in 1942 and Ranger in 1943 spent any time in U.K. waters. Wasp’s time was extremely limited, and shorter than originally planned, after her arrival at the beginning of April 1942, as she undertook two round trips delivering Spitfires to Malta before the carrier shortage in the Pacific following the loss of Lexington at Coral Sea resulted in her being called back to the USA for a quick refit before sailing for the Pacific just as the Battle of Midway was taking place at the beginning of June.
     
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