Pilot Officer John Wilfred Gadsby, 85017 RAF(VR), 82 Sqn RAF

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by malcwayland, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    I am researching the above man, whose Blenheim N3569 UX-T failed to return from a mission over the N Sea on 10 April 1941. I don't know if anyone has access to German records of the the time, but I would be very interested to know if they were a victim of flak or fighters.

    The crew were: Flight Sergeant John Maurice Irving, 741216; Pilot Officer J W Gadsby, 85017; and Sergeant John Gardner MacIlwraith, 755844, all RAF(VR) . I know that John Gadsby received Royal Aero Club Certificate 18146 in May, 1939, but am not sure if he was actually the pilot on the fateful mission. Can anyone shed any light on what his actual role was, please?

    And I'm not sure if the a/c departed from Watton where 82 were based, or it's satellite, Bodney - again, does anyone have any information on this, please?

    Malcolm
     
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  2. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    Gadsby position is listed as “Observer”
    MacIlwarith position is listed as “WOp/AG”
    Irving position is listed as “Pilot”

    So, F/S Irving was the “pilot” in the aircraft, from the source below

    Source: Irving J - International Bomber Command Centre

    Normally the Pilot of the aircraft is list first on the operational reports

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  3. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    Aircraft left from Bodney, as per records below.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    From my collection Panel from Runnymede.

    upload_2020-11-26_23-26-22.png
     
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  5. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    Temujin - Thank you so much, that is very helpful indeed. I was fairly sure that Irving WAS the pilot, but John Gadsby's having a pre-war Pilot's Licence made me wonder. I imagine he may have tried for a pilot position but had to re-stream as an Observer at some point? I have found him in a 1940 'Air Force List' as getting his Commission as an Observer on 8 Sep 1940. Using the references you gave I have been busy on the NA website, and looking at the ORB's for what 82 Sqn did from the outbreak of war. I'm hoping to find just when John was posted to it from the crew lists. Once again, thank you for your invaluable help - Malcolm
     
  6. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    CL1 - Very nice to have such a good image of his name on the Memorial, and thank you very much for you interest and help - Malcolm
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Great Britain, Royal Aero Club Aviators’ Certificates, 1910-1950
    Name: John Wilfred Gadsby
    Birth Date: 16 Dec 1910
    Birth Location: Godmanchester
    31032_A200008-00362.jpg

    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: John W Gadsby
    Gender: Male
    Marital Status: Single
    Birth Date: 16/12/1910 (16 Dec 1910)
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 122
    Residence Place: Canterbury Kent England
    Occupation: R O F (ROF Depot Uxb??
    Line Number: 36
    Schedule Number: 81
    Sub Schedule Number: 3
    Enumeration District: DGAQ
    Borough: Canterbury
    Registration district: 58-1.
    TNA_R39_1679_1679B_008.jpg

    I have to admit that sometimes the deciphering by Ancestry leaves an awful lot to be desired - better to do it yourself

    TD

    PS there are a number of family trees on Ancestry that include him - if you are interested
     
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  8. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    Thank you for that, Tricky Dickey. I had in fact already found the '39 register entry and the Aero certificate, and have a pretty good idea of the Trees on Ancestry - one of which is one done by myself! (malcwayland) If you look at the tree:
    https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/172627294/family/familyview?cfpid=222241199550
    you will see that John's mother was Edith Mary Ringrow, and I was researching the Ringrow family because an Uncle, Arthur Ringrow, was killed during the Boer war and two of her brothers, William and Frank, who were both born at Alconbury, were killed in WW1. It was while researching Arthur, William and Frank that I stumbled across the fact that Edith Mary lost John in WW2. Although being born in Steeple Gidding, Edith lived in at Weybridge Farm, Alconbury for much of her life before her marriage (At Alconbury) in 1904 to John Gadsby. Remembrance Sundays must have been particularly hard for her. Bit long-winded, but given your input I thought I would try and explain what piqued my interest in the family! KR - Malcolm
     
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  9. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    Photo from his Aero Club record, just in case you didn’t have it

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    Now THAT'S what I call a find, Temujin! I'm dying to know, how did you manage to locate it? I found the Certificate, OK, but had no idea the Aero Club record was available. Really pleased I can now put a face to the name, and am so grateful for your input - Malcolm
     
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Go to the certificate then use the arrow on the right to move the screen on one image, his photo is one along from his card

    TD
     
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  12. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    How did I miss that? - Easy, I'm an eejit who didn't see t'arrow! Thanks again, Sir!
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hmmm - and seeing what your last job was (via Ancestry profile page) missing arrows could prove - well, naughty

    TD
     
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  14. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    Oooops...! And to think I used to understand how to find my way around the myriad of pages in the Honeywell FMS! But the only important point on my profile, TD, is the "Retired" bit! (Big grin and a wink!)
     
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  15. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    Your welcome Malcolm, I see the other members gave you the answer......so I’ll go back to doing my “retired” things.........Cheers
     
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  16. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    By the way, a Casualty pack (P358258/41) was prepared for this record. If you go to the link below you can see that information and you can either see the record, or order it

    Sergeant J M Irving, Pilot Officer J W Gadsby, Sergeant J G MacIlwraith: missing... | The National Archives

    Casualty Packs (CPs) were created by the RAF whenever there was serious injury or loss of life associated with operational activity within the RAF. This includes operational flying losses, enemy action due to air raids, road accidents either on station or even off-station if they involved RAF vehicles.
     
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  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    me too :unsure:

    TD
     
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  18. malcwayland

    malcwayland Active Member

    Temujin and TD - Just FYI. I've now gone through 82's ORB, and I found that Sgts Irving and McIlwraith did their first 'op' on 22 Dec 1940 with a Sgt Dvorjetz as Observer. I found the same three people as the crew on another 15 missions, the last of these (Op 16) was on 31 Mar 1941. The aircraft on this op (and the previous op on 28 Mar) was 3569 'T'. I haven't found any mention of the a/c prior to the 28th so I think it must have been taken on squadron strength just before then.

    Nor have I found any mention of John Gadsby joining the squadron, so at the moment I think the raid on 10 April on which he lost his life was probably his first - whereas it was the 17th for the other two crew members.

    John's mother, Edith Mary Gadsby (Ringrow) was described as a 'Permanent Invalid' in the 1939 Register, and was being cared for by John Gadsby's widowed sister, Evelyn May Richardson. Edith died 4 Nov 1946 leaving an 'estate' valued at £5,637.

    It's easy to get over-emotional, but I do wonder just what the last 5 years or so of her life was like for this poor woman?

    Anyway, thank you one and all for the advice and help - you're stars!

    Malcolm
     

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