I am researching the above man, whose Blenheim N3569 UX-T failed to return from a mission over the N Sea on 10 April 1941. I don't know if anyone has access to German records of the the time, but I would be very interested to know if they were a victim of flak or fighters. The crew were: Flight Sergeant John Maurice Irving, 741216; Pilot Officer J W Gadsby, 85017; and Sergeant John Gardner MacIlwraith, 755844, all RAF(VR) . I know that John Gadsby received Royal Aero Club Certificate 18146 in May, 1939, but am not sure if he was actually the pilot on the fateful mission. Can anyone shed any light on what his actual role was, please? And I'm not sure if the a/c departed from Watton where 82 were based, or it's satellite, Bodney - again, does anyone have any information on this, please? Malcolm
Gadsby position is listed as “Observer” MacIlwarith position is listed as “WOp/AG” Irving position is listed as “Pilot” So, F/S Irving was the “pilot” in the aircraft, from the source below Source: Irving J - International Bomber Command Centre Normally the Pilot of the aircraft is list first on the operational reports
Temujin - Thank you so much, that is very helpful indeed. I was fairly sure that Irving WAS the pilot, but John Gadsby's having a pre-war Pilot's Licence made me wonder. I imagine he may have tried for a pilot position but had to re-stream as an Observer at some point? I have found him in a 1940 'Air Force List' as getting his Commission as an Observer on 8 Sep 1940. Using the references you gave I have been busy on the NA website, and looking at the ORB's for what 82 Sqn did from the outbreak of war. I'm hoping to find just when John was posted to it from the crew lists. Once again, thank you for your invaluable help - Malcolm
CL1 - Very nice to have such a good image of his name on the Memorial, and thank you very much for you interest and help - Malcolm
Great Britain, Royal Aero Club Aviators’ Certificates, 1910-1950 Name: John Wilfred Gadsby Birth Date: 16 Dec 1910 Birth Location: Godmanchester 1939 England and Wales Register Name: John W Gadsby Gender: Male Marital Status: Single Birth Date: 16/12/1910 (16 Dec 1910) Residence Year: 1939 Address: 122 Residence Place: Canterbury Kent England Occupation: R O F (ROF Depot Uxb?? Line Number: 36 Schedule Number: 81 Sub Schedule Number: 3 Enumeration District: DGAQ Borough: Canterbury Registration district: 58-1. I have to admit that sometimes the deciphering by Ancestry leaves an awful lot to be desired - better to do it yourself TD PS there are a number of family trees on Ancestry that include him - if you are interested
Thank you for that, Tricky Dickey. I had in fact already found the '39 register entry and the Aero certificate, and have a pretty good idea of the Trees on Ancestry - one of which is one done by myself! (malcwayland) If you look at the tree: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/172627294/family/familyview?cfpid=222241199550 you will see that John's mother was Edith Mary Ringrow, and I was researching the Ringrow family because an Uncle, Arthur Ringrow, was killed during the Boer war and two of her brothers, William and Frank, who were both born at Alconbury, were killed in WW1. It was while researching Arthur, William and Frank that I stumbled across the fact that Edith Mary lost John in WW2. Although being born in Steeple Gidding, Edith lived in at Weybridge Farm, Alconbury for much of her life before her marriage (At Alconbury) in 1904 to John Gadsby. Remembrance Sundays must have been particularly hard for her. Bit long-winded, but given your input I thought I would try and explain what piqued my interest in the family! KR - Malcolm
Now THAT'S what I call a find, Temujin! I'm dying to know, how did you manage to locate it? I found the Certificate, OK, but had no idea the Aero Club record was available. Really pleased I can now put a face to the name, and am so grateful for your input - Malcolm
Go to the certificate then use the arrow on the right to move the screen on one image, his photo is one along from his card TD
Hmmm - and seeing what your last job was (via Ancestry profile page) missing arrows could prove - well, naughty TD
Oooops...! And to think I used to understand how to find my way around the myriad of pages in the Honeywell FMS! But the only important point on my profile, TD, is the "Retired" bit! (Big grin and a wink!)
Your welcome Malcolm, I see the other members gave you the answer......so I’ll go back to doing my “retired” things.........Cheers
By the way, a Casualty pack (P358258/41) was prepared for this record. If you go to the link below you can see that information and you can either see the record, or order it Sergeant J M Irving, Pilot Officer J W Gadsby, Sergeant J G MacIlwraith: missing... | The National Archives Casualty Packs (CPs) were created by the RAF whenever there was serious injury or loss of life associated with operational activity within the RAF. This includes operational flying losses, enemy action due to air raids, road accidents either on station or even off-station if they involved RAF vehicles.
Temujin and TD - Just FYI. I've now gone through 82's ORB, and I found that Sgts Irving and McIlwraith did their first 'op' on 22 Dec 1940 with a Sgt Dvorjetz as Observer. I found the same three people as the crew on another 15 missions, the last of these (Op 16) was on 31 Mar 1941. The aircraft on this op (and the previous op on 28 Mar) was 3569 'T'. I haven't found any mention of the a/c prior to the 28th so I think it must have been taken on squadron strength just before then. Nor have I found any mention of John Gadsby joining the squadron, so at the moment I think the raid on 10 April on which he lost his life was probably his first - whereas it was the 17th for the other two crew members. John's mother, Edith Mary Gadsby (Ringrow) was described as a 'Permanent Invalid' in the 1939 Register, and was being cared for by John Gadsby's widowed sister, Evelyn May Richardson. Edith died 4 Nov 1946 leaving an 'estate' valued at £5,637. It's easy to get over-emotional, but I do wonder just what the last 5 years or so of her life was like for this poor woman? Anyway, thank you one and all for the advice and help - you're stars! Malcolm