369628 2nd Lt. Geoffrey Arthur WEST, RE

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by John West, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. John West

    John West Active Member

    Hello. I also am searching for information about my uncle, 2nd Lt. Geoffrey Arthur West RE, Service number 369628 who died by suicide on 24th September 1946 at the age of 22 and is buried in Dehli Military Cemetery.

    Unfortunately his death certificate is unavailable and so I can't access his military records. We think he had been posted 'up country' but any pointers would be much appreciated.
     
  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Welcome aboard. Others may come along and help. Always apply for his Service Record, even if the turnaround is reported as a year plus now. See: Get a copy of military service records Upload the records here once you've obtained them and then the forum can get to work on them.

    Note: Please do not pay for any site on the internet who promise you his service records they will not have them, and you would have wasted your money.

    Adding what you have already found can help. A Date of Birth and a Service Number help, though the experts here can surmount that gap.

    Searching Google will sometimes bring you back here. The site’s search engine is rather simple; two examples 53rd will bring back all mentions of 53rd; an Army unit can have after 53rd an additional official name, in one case 53rd (Bolton). You must be agile and keep going.

    War diaries can contain almost anything. At the very least, they give the daily movements and most important actions of every unit. They may also contain information on casualties, message logs, rolls of officers (but not O.R.'s), maps, orders, and much else. They are available at the PRO to everyone. Drew5233 and some others are willing to scan them for the benefit of those who cannot get to the National Archives at Kew.

    It depends of course how much you want to know, just one battle or campaign for an example. Good luck.

    Please come back and tell us what you found. Scanning threads it is clear some discover the site years after your posts and add their information or request help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    On a quick search there are only two items, Find A Grave adds this:
    Link: Second Lieutenant Geoffrey Arthur West...

    The London Gazette has:
    Link: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37675/supplement/3979/data.pdf

    Note he is amongst a group of thirty-five Royal Engineer officers and they all have the prefix eight digit number - which I have not seen before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  4. John West

    John West Active Member

  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    You are in luck! A further search found this website and the author explains:
    Link: 140th (5th London) Army Field Regiment, Royal Artillery – Their story between the 10th and 31st May 1940

    There is this simple passage in a chapter:
    Link: Eric West 1919-1992, and Geoffrey West 1924-1946 – 140th (5th London) Army Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

    There is a contact option: Contact – 140th (5th London) Army Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
     
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  6. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    I would expect there was a Court of Enquiry by the military authorities and possibly a local Coroners Court, even a referral back to the local coroner in England. Until his service record is acquired you will not know. In theory English coroners court records can be accessed in special circumstances, this is unlikely to happen these days.

    Sadly suicides were not uncommon. In separate research in late July 2020 I read a privately published book ‘Meanderings: A collection of short stories’ by Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen, who as a WW2 artillery officer had been in an Indian Army and was in hospital for two long bouts of sickness. This passage helps I think to explain, based on the author’s observations in hospital:
    Good luck.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Moved posts to own thread
     
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  8. Temujin

    Temujin Member

    Not positive this is him?? Date of death differs from Headstone, Probate Records. But Frederick Harry West was his father??....Date of death on this Probate Record could be incorrect?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  9. John West

    John West Active Member

    Thanks again, all useful!
     
  10. John West

    John West Active Member

    That's him, thanks
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Just noting they're Army Numbers, mainly from eg General Service Corps 14200001 - 15000000.

    [As far as Guards are concerned - I've seen quite a few examples when checking LG entries for their officers. Cadets who, upon commission, had both Army Numbers from Guards' block allocations and a Personal number. If gazetted thereafter, only the Personal number is used. Not all those commissioned had army numbers, not all numbers were from Guards' allocations either: have seen GSC as well as numbers from other infantry regiments. However, the ones I've listed definitely fit into gaps in unofficial nominal rolls, no clashes so far with known ORs.]

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36274/supplement/5328/data.pdf


    From GG History:
    Screenshot 2020-10-24 at 11.39.12.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  12. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    One of the proofs of death that Mod will accept for applications is a copy of his entry on the CWGC.
    Casualty Details | CWGC

    If you have not already looked here for a death cert, it could be in GRO War Death Army Officers Indices (1939 to 1948) on the findmypast website. I think you then apply to the General Register Office.
    British armed forces and overseas deaths and burials | findmypast.co.uk

    While I was looking this up I noticed that FMP also say they have:
    WO 25 – Royal Engineers Officers’ Service Records In this series, you will find records of service for officers in the Royal Engineers. In the documents, you can find details of their rank and dates of service. The forms also include the campaigns your ancestors served in along with information on any marriages, births of children during service and the names and address of next of kin.

    Not sure if it would show anything about his death, or what years it covers.
     
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  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

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  14. John West

    John West Active Member

    Thanks- I do know he was an in patient in a Military psychiatric hospital in or around Dehli at the time of his suicide in 1946. Do you have an idea of which hospital that was likely to have been?
     
  15. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    On a quick look there are a few clues:
    Note this is from a current Indian Army website: Welcome to Armed Forces Medical College
    CH(SC) is a hospital at Poona, a long way from Delhi.
    There is no history of the Delhi Base Hospital in: Delhi Cantonment - Wikipedia
     
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  16. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I have not been able to find any info on hospitals in Delhi, although David has done well with the above.

    There is normally a cause of death written on the burial records (if one exists), but I do wonder what they might enter with such a delicate matter as this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  17. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    Delhi War Cemetery was only created in 1951, so original burial was elsewhere. Perhaps CWGC can advise where.

    A general query as to hospitals or poss original burial site could be made to Families in British India Society (FIBIS) Not sure if you have to join to raise a query.
    FIBIS Database - Powered by The Frontis Archive Publishing System

    If burial records exist they may be at the India collection at the British Library.
     
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  18. John West

    John West Active Member

    I've found this photo of 2nd Lt. Geoffrey West taken in May 1946 at the Queen Victoria own Madras Sappers and School of Mining. West is standing back row, 2nd in from right. I do hope that helps to
    place him, this would have been taken 4-5 months before his suicide in Delhi.

    GEOFFREY WEST IMG_20201114_183059.jpg
     
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  19. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    I have found the specialist librarians helpful at the India collection at the British Library.The website gives you an option to email them. As they are now shut again I do not know what level of service is being provided.
     
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  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    John

    To send off for his service records you do not need a death certificate - as Travers points out in post #12, you can download and use the certificate that is attached to his CWGC file Casualty Details | CWGC also attached here - you do not need any other form of death certificate in a case such as this

    TD
     

    Attached Files:

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