Following the Firefly thread I thought I would look through what documents I have as I thought that I had some clues relating to this subject. All I have is suggestive clues and no by any means proof. From WO 170-9 (MGRA AFHQ Italy 1944), and more specifically from June 1944: Also June 44: So we can see that at least an expectation had been set up of the use of conversion kits in Italy. Also, if shipment of many more M10s to the theatre was unlikely that would seem to preclude the idea that the numbers of 17-pr M10s used in 1945 had come in from the UK. (I could go back and look to see how many were supposed to be in use.) From WO 204-7417 (Italy, anti-tank units reorganisation 1944-45), Jan '45: The question that this document raises is, what exactly was meant by the "overhaul and conversion" programme that was taking place which required additional 3" M10s to be pulled back to meet the January target? On the face of it, the most likely meaning of "conversion" would be "conversion to 17-pounder" but I suppose it is speculative.
From Concord's Armour PhotoGallery book on the Achilles, the numbers of M10 17pdr on hand in Italy were as follows:- 13 Sept 1944 30 (supposedly the first time they were reported) 30 Sept 1944 40 Nov 1944 152 There is a well known photo of a M10 17pdr of the 93rd AT Regt crossing the Savio river dated 24th Oct. Judging from other photos this unit also had M10 3". THE BRITISH ARMY IN ITALY 1944 There were finally 8 regts with these by the end of the war, plus another for the 2nd Polish Armd Div from June 1945.
That's a brilliant piece of evidence Richelieu! I think that settles it pretty well and very interesting to see the numbers given.
I haven't found anything in the REME red books that specifically mentions the M10Cs. For what it's worth, they do record that 16 Base Workshop at Naples was That might give you somewhere to look...
I'm not actually researching the M10... but there is some interesting overlap between researching the Archer and the M10 in British service. For instance I think 93 A/T Reg't's war diary has some interesting documentation about how they used their M10s. It might have been there or somewhere else (maybe here) where I read about M10s working in conjunction with an air OP - have a 25-pounder harrass an enemy tank until it leaves the cover of buildings and enters a road along which an M10 has sited. So, maybe someday
Thanks. These documents are excellent and clear for once. Infuriatingly there is no consistency in records (and memoirs) regarding reference to the differences between M10 types and armament. Whilst it is in the record, even the 'C' designation is an error - it was only intended for Shermans. Perversely, however predictably, the RA differentiate between 'M10' (meaning 76mm equipped) and '17pdr SP' which may or may not mean Archer!
The use of "17pdr SP" annoyed me too. Does it exist in 21AG documents as well? I can't remember. (But it's a lot simpler in 21AG as we know that Archers were only issued to infantry divisional AT regiments.) I am pretty sure now that the only Archers shipped to Italy were 8 trial vehicles which were used by 93 A/T and 7 Canadian A/T and eventually the Poles (I don't think the number increased beyond 8... off the top of my head), and 12 which were used by 314 Battery of 105 A/T Reg't which was later attached to 13 A/T Reg't when 105 was disbanded. Everything else was M10s.
