Honour The Armies, Honours & Awards to the British & Dominion Armies During WW2

He's in ... London Gazette 03/08/44 ref 3607 L/cpl SA Military Forces. No theatre so marked DSER (distinguished service).

Hope this helps ...

Skip

 

Hello,

I wonder if I could ask if there is anything more in 'Honour Those Mentioned’ than the little bit below on my Gd?

7880500 Sergt. B. W. A. Symes (Royal Armoured Corps) (17th from base on the left)
SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 22 MARCH, 1945 (p1549)
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36994/supplement/1549/data.pdf

Additionally, does anyone know if the date of this entry "22 March" gives a window as to when the MID might have occurred (I think in passing someone said once that it might be quite a while from the MID to the item in the London Gazette so the MID could date back even into 1944 perhaps? i.e. Might be from Sept 1944, November 1944, or is it more likely to be from the first months in 1945?)

I have a number of clues I am following so tying down the date roughly at least could be a great help.

Many thanks!

Rm.

 

Hello,

I hope your offer for checking is still available to take up?

If so could you please check Sgt 7248628 Alan S Harrison for the following dates.

Pal 15.1.42-30.6.42
Italy 9.10.43

Thanks in advance,

Will

 

Joroti wrote: "Skip, may I seek another look up please, this one relates to Ralph Chalkley RAOC."

Joroti: 2nd Lieut. (Acting Captain) Ralph Chalkey was mentioned in the LG of 14 Dec 17 while serving with 26th Battery, RFA at Arras and Flanders in 1917. The recommendation for his MiD stated:

"for gallantry and devotion to duty throughout the operations in 1917 around Arras and Monchy and north of Ypres. He has on several occasions by personal reconnaissance, though exposed to heavy shell fire, brought in valuable information. His personal courage and excellent work in the battery have been a fine example to all."

Chalkey was commissioned from the ranks of the RN Division. Temp. 2nd Lt, RFA, 24 Jun 16; Lieut., RFA, 4 Dec 17; Acting Capt, RFA, 16 Aug 17. Served with 26th Bty, RFA from 30 Aug 15 to 8 Jul 16 (hospitalized); returned to 26th Bty, RFA on 21 Nov 16 and served with it until 20 Dec 16. Aide de Camp to the Commander, RA, 29 Division from 21 Dec 16 to 17 Jan 17; Reconnaissance Officer, HQ, 29 Divisional Artillery from 18 Jan 17 to 20 Feb 17. Posted to 92nd Bty, RFA from 21 Feb 17 to 20 Mar 17; posted to 26th Battery, RFA from 21 Mar 17 to 29 Mar 18; then went to Fifth Army where he was posted to D Battery, 159th Brigade, RFA in the 35th Division.

As you are probably already aware, he was born in 1896, the son of S. Chalkey of London SW and educated at Sherborne School from 1911 to 1914.

Sources:
The Sherborne Registre 1550-1950
Old Shirburian Navy & Army List 1914-1919
29th Divisional Artillery War Record and Honours Book 1915-1918

Regards, Dick Flory

 

Hi 281664,

No trace on HARRISON or his service number in HTM I'm afraid ...

Best,

Skip

 

Hi Ramiles,

I'm afraid HTM has less info than your post but SYMES does have an entry for this LG date and number.

Best,

Skip

 

Thanks Skip, very much appreciated,

I don't suppose anyone happens to know if the LG date "22 March 1945" can help to narrow down when the MID might have been made? Are we talking about a window of weeks, months or more perhaps? before the details are posted routinely in the LG during WW2?

All the best,

Rm.

Ps. Skip Thanks again! (For the answer below) (I have the WD for 24th L and SRY and I think I know what it was for - but the date (or window of dates) would/could help confirm/eliminate some ideas) - Gd/family et.al couldn't/can't remember exactly for what he got it but he/we thought/think it was for a one of a few things (just curious to know/go through a process of finding out!) and enjoying the process (somewhat!). Rm.

PPs. Thanks Drew5233 (post #65) - I think (according to this) that there were about 14 MIDs in the SRY post D-day (up until the end of the war) so this encourages the pursuit for any extra info (from the fog of time) if there is any to glean out there... I expect something is bound to come to light at sometime

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:29398]

 

Hi Rm,

I'm afraid I don't - I do know that the LG sometime appeared a fair time after the actual events and I'm not sure that the unit War Diary would even help.

Sorry not to be of more use,

Skip

 

Don't forget some MIDs were given for work over a period of time as well as one single day or incident. It could be he did notable service over a 12 month period. The regiments history may provide a clue or two assuming one was written???

 

Hello again, (and especially to Skip )

I have recently been researching a good friend of my grandfathers's whom he met whilst serving with the SRY during WW2 -

This fellow my grandfather apparently knew as "Jerry (or perhaps Gerry?) Murphy" and a few things (for my grandfather), which mentioned in correspondence, really seemed to have stood out:

Principally granddad's friend "Murphy" had been mentioned in despatches twice (up to that point), once during the SRY's desert days and once during the portion of the Normandy campaign. (The SRY had 6 MID's in the desert days and 14 MID's at that stage D-day to date).

Now so far I have actually found a reference to a particular "Murphy" near to the start of the Notts Yeomanry 1944 War Diary, in an SRY personnel list that I think might perhaps very well be the guy gd was on about.

The chap in the SRY WD had the army number 14429885 - and that "Murphy" in the WD was an SRY trooper just prior to D-day (but might have risen through promotion in rank later on).

The "Murphy" my granddad mentioned was he said "Irish" - by which I assume perhaps he was a citizen of the Irish Republic/Eire (though of course I can't yet discount Northern Ireland) - I have an Irish Penny (that I think he gave my grandfather) - gd used to collect small coins (as mementos/souvenirs) from a few of those that he had met.

Since I've been having trouble with tracking down if this is War diary Murphy - i.e. if 14429885 as listed in the SRY WD is actually the very same Murphy to which gd refereed -

I wonder could you see if 14429885 Jerry Murphy has an MID (or even 2!) to his name? Date wise the 2nd one should have come to him around the same time as my gd's - that's Gazetted in March 1945.

Also as an aside, in case anyone see's this and thinks by some "wow - small world co-incidence" that they actually know the "Murphy" my granddad was on about, gd said that this "Murphy" he knew had a brother (who I guess was about his age) that died suddenly (I think) in early 1945 from an abscess on the brain.
(Context there I guess being (in the letter) that the "job" they were doing might be dangerous - but there were many ways that you could die, i.e. like we say now "in just crossing the road".)

I tried searching with the Army number 14429885 in a number of records, but have been drawing a bit of a blank so far, perhaps, but I don't know? because Murphy might have been an Irish citizen / i.e. from EIRE, and he's listed in some other grouping / format - I don't know if that's what's making it hard for me to find the info I am after there.

All the best,

Rm.

Ps. A BBC article by John Waite & a BBC Radio 4 documentary here:

Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals (28 December 2011)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211

The Disowned Army : John Waite reports on the campaign to recognise 5,000 Irish soldiers who deserted their own country's army to fight Nazism alongside the British in World War 2. When they returned home their names were placed on "The List" and they were denied jobs and treated as outcasts. Many in Ireland now see their treatment as inhumane and unjustified and there is a campaign underway to have the Irish Government officially erase the stain on their names.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b018xtr9

 

Hello Ramiles,

Apologies for the delay - been away from my books. I'm afraid there is no Murphy with this number listed in HTM. There are a few Murphys listed without serial numbers but none match in terms of rank or regiment.

Are there any other Murphys on the SRY nominal rolls? If so I can check their serial numbers ...

Best

Skip

 

Thanks Skip,

I was rather afraid it wouldn't be as "straightforward as all that" when I couldn't find anything through searching the gazette. So I am now at a bit of a loss at the mo.

I suppose if he were an Irish citizen and not from the UK he would definitely still be in there? I don't know if citizens from EIRE were perhaps treated as a special case in British records of that era? and either not listed there or perhaps listed someplace elsewhere?

This (14429885) was the only Murphy I saw in the 1944-46 bit of the Notts Yeo War Diary ( APPENDIX 1 to 33/G dated 3 Feb 44 ), but there is a section of the 1941 "NOMINAL ROLL" that Bovington said was simply "untranslatable" to their transcriber and so it just says:

"FIRST FEW PAGES ILLEGIBLE – GET FROM ORIGINAL" - but I don't even know if he was already with the regiment in 1941, so that's probably a rather long shot at best, even if his name and army number is readable from the "illegible" original, there might even still be a handful of SRY Murphy's to look through anyhow.

- and I guess out of around 750 men (at roughly any one time) in a given Regiment and probably around 1500 or more all in SRY during the whole of WW2 I suspect that there were probably perhaps a few other Murphys there.

That said though - I had high hopes things would just click for "14429885" as this was the only Murphy I saw in the Roll section for 1944-46 - so I just wished it would basically be him!

I suppose it might also be a transcription / typo problem, the transcriber might even have mis-read "14429885"

I'm pretty sure I'm reading my own gd's handwriting right though, and his "Murphy" at least looks like it's right*.

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:29466]

I noticed that in granddad's case it said Royal Armoured Corps, presumably because he had recently gone from 24th lancers to the SRY and they were "still catching up" with him there, but in other cases, where people had been long in the SRY, like Christopherson (99064) it can say "Nottinghamshire Yeomanry, Royal Armoured. Corps" so I suspect that's what it would have said for him in his case,

Many, many thanks again for looking for me anyhow!

All the best, (but a bit mystified )

Rm.

* Ps. and I've transcribed this letter here:

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/57495-the-sherwood-rangers-in-april-1945/?p=695009

 

Having another think about this, and trying a lateral approach it occurred to me that since (according to this) the actual number of possible persons awarded MIDs there was pretty limited:

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:29398]

If I just searched: Notices | All Notices | The Gazette

I ought to be able to get somewhere, by just searching with some simple Boolean terms

Boolean Operators are simple words (AND, OR, NOT or AND NOT) used as conjunctions to combine or exclude keywords in a search, resulting in more focused and productive results. This should save time and effort by eliminating inappropriate hits that must be scanned before discarding

As the website suggests : A guide to searching The Gazette | The Gazette

After all if there were only "6" MID's listed for the Notts Yeomanry during their desert days it ought to be simple to find those there...

And cross reference them with the 14 listed for the Notts Yeomanry (D-day to date)

Err. Nope. (What a total mess )

So by-the-way there is some good advice in here:

Mentioned In Despatches - Help finding the citation

&

Have you been to the London Gazette today?

etc.

Oak Leaf medal?

Keeping to the lateral approach though, I've tried to google "London Gazette" and "Murphy" "Notts Yeomanry" and "Royal Armoured Corps" etc.

So:

London Gazette AND Murphy Notts Yeomanry AND Royal Armoured Corps - Google Search

But chasing down various leads does tend to snowball into a bit of a mammoth task, involving possibilities of his (Murphy's) being actually listed not as Notts Yeo but as a member of an "attached" unit or under a slightly different name.

So I think it's probably the back-burner for this at the mo.!

(I thought if I spelled out some of the things I've tried it might help some others though in their own searches - including googling the London Gazette and the: A guide to searching The Gazette | The Gazette

...page, as referenced elsewhere.

Thanks again!

All the best,

Rm.

Ps. Re. (post #70) Will do

 

Rm - if you suddenly get a lead off the back of this then just shout and I'll do look ups ... hope it works out

 

Hi Cynthia

Welcome to the forum

I hope one of the mods will move this thread to one of its own as we rally dont want to mix your fathers details in a thread on awards - he deserves his own.

Initially I would suggest obtaining a copy of his Official service records (ie not those that some web sites suggest they have) and I believe the link for those will be - Archives | Scots Guards

TD

 

Nothing listed for Thomas Croft in Honour the Armies

 

Thank you Owen for respect given. I am sure he appreciates it although he was a modest man

 

Hi, i wonder if you could look up Gunner Harry Brown 923527 135th Herts Yeomanry Field (Royal) Regiment.

Thank you,

Kind regards

Liam