Grandfather's service records, 1st Bn Border regiment

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by paulbellis, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    I wouldn’t research any further on FWR.

    Your starting point ought to be applying to UK MOD for his service records via this link -

    Requests for personal data and service records: a detailed guide

    Members may turn him up in the London Gazette.

    Steve

    EDIT TO ADD

    I’ve looked through my copy of 1st Border WW2 history “When Dragons Flew”and can’t see any officer with surname Haines listed on the nominal roll for North Africa/ Sicily or for Operation Market Garden.

    There was a tremendous turnover of men and officers as the Battalion converted to their airborne role.

    As above MOD is the way forward. Nothing else will give you his service chronology.

    PS

    The attached photo does not show Border Regiment cap badges - it is a Scottish regiment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
  2. Julesface

    Julesface New Member

    Thank you very much for looking Steve, He was from Hampshire (born in Kent) I don't know if that makes any difference to where he was placed.
     
  3. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Unless he was a volunteer he wouldn’t be able to choose a regiment at enlistment. Conscripts were posted where required.

    I understand that newly commissioned officers were asked to list a preferred regiment 1 to 3. Anecdotally many men say they got their 3rd choice.:banghead:

    Steve
     
  4. Julesface

    Julesface New Member

    I've printed off and filled in the forms but notice that the service number is a mandatory field and I don't have it. Is it worth me sending off £30 to be told they can't find anything or will they search without a service number? Thanks for any advice.
     
  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Don’t worry as MOD will also search on full name and DOB as well. Obviously service number would be helpful but lack of it is not a bar to an application being made.

    Steve
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    it states on the form - * SERVICE NUMBER AND/OR DATE OF BIRTH MUST BE INCLUDED - as it is normal on the death certificate to have a date of birth it makes the requirement of a service number redudnant

    Just recd my cousin-in-laws records back in less than 4 weeks

    TD
     
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  7. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Blimey, thats quick. I know of of a chap that has been waiting four months. I'm hoping to help him out when he finally gets them!

    I do believe they are short staffed at the moment due to that pandemic. I dont think i will tell him that yours was back in a month.
    Stu.
     
  8. Please can someone advise the best way to start looking for my Grandad's records. He was in the Border Regiment - Service number 3604091. He was involved I think in Operation Ladbroke as I know he was a survivor of a crashed glider and spent some time as a POW. William O'Donnell born 06.02.1915.
     
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  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    First and foremost apply for his service records, for WW2 they can only be obtained from the MOD and the forms you need can be found here - Request records of deceased service personnel you will need a copy of his death certificate unless he died on active service

    The blanks can then be filled in once you have his records as you will know where he was who he was with and when. Do not be tempted to buy his service records from any website - you cant



    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: W O'Donnell
    Rank: Lance Corporal
    Army Number: 3604091
    Regiment: Border Regiment
    POW Number: 7247
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: XVIII-A
    Camp Location: Wolfsberg, Austria

    upload_2021-3-14_17-43-46.png


    TD
     
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  10. Thank you so much. I've been searching all afternoon but most sites want money! Will his records have much detail? i.e when he was captured and how long he was a prisoner for?
    Also, my Dad (his son) said he tried to escape a couple of times. Is this sort of info recorded anywhere?
    Thanks for your help.
     
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    If you check back to post 14 in this thread then it is possible to obtain a record for him from the Red Cross, but it is not easy

    He could have completed a liberation questionnaire but it was certainly - one of our members PsyWar.Org has this site which might help explain a little more POW Liberation Questionnaires

    Its doubtful if the attempts he made to escape were recorded - you may want to start searching the internet for the camp he was in - for example XVIII-A - Google Search

    If you look at the images in post 11 of this thread then those are service records with the sort of details you might expect

    Be useful to know if he was a Paratrooper or in the Glider Pilot Regiment - service records will say

    TD
     
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  12. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Welcome to the forum.

    He has an original Border Regiment army service number so was not transferred into the Battalion, as many were as it changed to the Airborne role.

    He was captured on Sicily 10th July 1943. 3 pages of the official casualty lists attached - showing him missing then confirmed POW (both likely 1943) and finally no longer POW in 1945.

    While his MOD records will provide information on his time in the army they will provide little on his time s a POW.

    You need to apply to Swiss Red Cross 17th May for his POW records via this link -


    Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

    You need to be quick off the mark and check the site at the opening time and quickly complete and submit the online form as the enquiry window will close within a couple of hours due to over subscription. It is a free service and in pre Covid times you would get a reply through the post after a minimum of 4 months. It will list the camps he passed through but not the work camps to which he may have been allocated. There is a wealth of information on the internet.

    Stalag 18A

    Good Luck

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

  13. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    When Dragons Flew mentions him but only in a list of men taken POW in Sicily
     
  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Well spotted. I haven’t spotted his name yet.........

    Steve
     
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  15. I've ordered When Dragons Flew and looking forward to reading it. Thank you all for your input. It really is appreciated. My Grandad died when I was 15 and I never had the chance to talk to him about any of his experiences. Really makes you think you should talk to your relatives before it's too late.
     
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  16. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    He was in Glider Chalk 84 which, according to the Tug pilot's report, made 4 attempts at run in before releasing the glider over Syracuse Bay. The glider was reported as ‘Unaccounted for”. It appears that all on board were taken POW with the exception of Glider Pilot Sgt D G Jones and Pte T W Crow who are missing and commemorated on the Cassino Memorial. I will see if I can dig out some paperwork from the research I did for Mike Peters’ book “Glider Pilots in Sicily"
     
  17. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    The glide manifest for chalk 84
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    His POW Liberation report
     

    Attached Files:

  19. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Dear Tracey,

    So very glad you have "When Dragon's Flew" on order, there is so very much in it that you will find useful (a revelation no less) in following the long hard road which is the story of your grandfather and his mates. Their courage in just setting foot aboard any glider, each as individuals, knows no bounds.

    You now have so many roads to go down with not only The Border's,, but that of Airborne Forces too. It will not be an easy journey, but please do chase things down till you reach that place where you are content with honouring your grandfather's memory. The good folks on WW2 Talk will, I'm sure, be there with guidance and help as required.

    And, I hope, whilst awaiting the arrival of "When Dragon's Flew", that these extracts for you will not be amiss (please note, most importantly, all on the back of the work of the fine folks above)

    Page 57, Lt. Ron Jack, a Rhodesian who had joined the battalion in 1943, on the "Waco" (Hadrian) glider;

    "He expressed concern over the weakness of the floor between the reinforced wheel treads in the Waco, as several men had put their feet through the floor while practising loading".

    More below.

    The very kindest regards to you, always remember, never forget,

    Jim.

    When Dragons Flew contents page.jpg

    When Dragons Flew contents Bill George page 71.jpg

    When Dragons Flew  page 72.jpg

    1st Borders Glider Chalk 84 Sicily.jpg

    Casualty Details | CWGC

    Casualty Details | CWGC

    Airborne Collect.jpg
     
  20. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Hello Tracey, you may be interested to see the film footage in the previously posted thread here;

    Airborne in North Africa

    It will give you a good view of Airborne life in North Africa in the build up to the invasion of Sicily.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
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