My sister has come across an unknown relative of ours who was in the Royal Naval Air Service and who apparently rose quite high up through the ranks. At the time of his marriage in 1954 he was a Leading Airman, L/FX 646352. Now I assume that 646652 was his service number but does anyone know what the L/FX represents? Thank you.
The Royal Naval Air Service ceased to exist in 1918 being merged into the new RAF. Do you mean the Fleet Air Arm (FAA)?
Hi, Naval service numbers prefix interpretation explained in this link - GENUKI: Marine and Naval Ratings Service Numbers, UK and Ireland Steve
L= Lee on Solent (his Port Division/Welfare Authority) FX= Fleet Air Arm. See: RN OFFICIAL NUMBERS [RATINGS] Tim
If it is in the address part of his Marriage Certificate it might mean Royal Naval Air Station (may be followed by the station name?). Steve
Not so simple. The background to the manning of the FAA was complex and was the result of the struggle between the RAF and the RN for control of the sea air arm. Already the RAF Coastal Area was formed in December 1919 and controlled all units working with the RN including airships under RN control and units afloat in aircraft carriers. In the early 1920s there was abundant discussions for the future of air power at sea and the relationship between the RN and the RAF regarding the control of fleet air work by the Committee of Imperial Defence.The Fleet Air Arm was formed on 1 April 1924,at a time when there was a proposal for the Army to takeover the RAF,the Army and the RN being prominent, in the light of the post war economic position, attacking the idea of an independent AIr Force. Trenchard threatened to resign if the RAF was absorbed and the CID rejected the proposal that the Army should takeover the RAF.The CID further, could not agree that the FAA should be a stand alone FAA.but lay down that the RAF would supply the bulk of the officers at 80% and the RN 20%.This resulted in the RN First Sea Lord and Admiralty expressing doubt that the proposal would function and concessions were given to prevent resignations.The proportion of RN officers was increased to 30% to buy off the dissent of Admiral Beatty. The final outcome was RAF officers 70%,RN officers 30% but with an agreement between the two services, based on five points which negated that and effected a change of the ratio to the satisfaction of the Admiralty.(This ratio applied to sea going units and not shore based units) 1 Design of aircraft...Air Ministry responsible, but the Admiralty would list the numbers required along with the performance specification.The AM would detail the specifications required together with any amendments raised by the RN. 2 When FAA units were land based.the RN would notify the RAF Commander,Coastal Area,the nature of the training required and the RAF would then carry it out. 3 RN ratings would gradually replace airmen on board aircraft carriers in various duties and trades. 4 Up to 70% of the officers in the FAA could be provided by the RN or the Royal Marines....such officers could be temporarily attached for specific periods during which detachment would be granted RAF rank and would be eligible for promotion in the RAF irrespective of their naval rank.(Arrangements for Naval Officer Volunteers for Service with the Fleet Air Arm is comprehensively covered by AMWO No 551) 5 Fleet Air Observation Duties along with gunnery spotting and reconnaissance to be carried out by naval officers who would not be attached to the RAF. A check from RAF lists on the Pilot strength and roll call of Fighter,Fleet Spotter and Reconnaissance Flights of the Fleet Air Arm in 1924 illustrates the acceptance of Point 4 where personnel from the RN,RM of Lt rank and some of Lt Commander RN,Lt and Captain RM, are shown serving in the RAF Coastal Area while others are shown on aircraft carriers serving in the China Station and in the Mediterranean Station. Over the years, the continual pressure from the RN to have command control over the FAA, led to the FAA being transferred to the total overall control of the RN from 1937 but the transformation to RN was not seamless and on the eve of the start of the Second World War,there were still RAF officers serving on aircraft carriers.The 70/30 ratio in favour of the RN fell short due to the lack of RN volunteers for the FAA,the Admiralty then proposed that ratings and marines should be trained in the same way as RAF trained airman pilots.The RAF refused to accept the proposal as their equivalent training prerequisites included a 3 year apprenticeship before flying training,something that naval ratings and marines did not have....another complex problem resulting in continual bickering between the two services from the time of the formation of the FAA when the two services could not agree funding arrangements for the new air arm and the matter had to be referred to the Treasury for a solution. I cannot see the arrangement for the FAA structure with the two services involved, as drawn up immediately post Great War would have been fit for purpose to be effective in the Second World War.The decision to transfer the FAA to RN control came at an opportune time when the new carrier Ark Royal was commissioned in 1938
Harry, so glad, that as an RAF expert, you have come up with this. You have largely answered questions, which I felt I should have known the answers to but didn't. I have come up with the following much of which you have covered, on which I am more than happy to be corrected. On formation in 1924 the FAA was known as the Fleet Air Arm Branch of the Royal Air Force. At this time more than 50% of the pilots were naval officers, holding Air Force rank. All other aircrew were naval, the Air Force provided all maintenance crew. The Air Ministry were responsible for provision of aircraft but the Admiralty specified type and numbers and had to pay for them. The Air Ministry had administrative control and the Admiralty had operational control. When embarked, personnel came under naval discipline but when ashore came under the Air Force. The FAA came under full Admiralty control on 24 May 1939 when it was officially known as the Air Branch of the Royal Navy thus ending a very unsatisfactory situation. One question I have been unable to solve is what uniform did FAA officers wear during the period 1924-39. Was it RN or RAF or a mixture? In respect of your point 4 what was the badge of rank if promoted in the RAF above their naval rank? Best I've come up with so far is a naval uniform of 1929 with aviator's wings in the Maritime Museum. https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/72339.html Tim
I have seen references to arguments as to whether the former naval personnel should be allowed to retain their beards and later when it went back to the navy what to do about moustaches. I believe that this was eventually resolved by applying RM shaving regulations to the FAA. Be that as it may the two previous posts do reinforce my point that the RNAS did not simply become the FAA so that it seems odd for someone at the onset of WW2 to be stating that they were RNAS One minor oddity just to illustrate how chaotic the whole thing was. The RNAS did not completely vanish on 1st April 1918 when the RAF came into existence. One part lingered on for a while. One RNAS squadron had responsibility for testing tanks when they came off the production line, acting as a source of advice for tank designers and overseeing the delivery of tanks to Plateau in France and handing them over to the Army. The RAF did not want to take this over. Moving it into Army control (which seems logical) would mean transferring all the members of the squadron into the Army but it had been agreed that those who did not wish to join the RAF could stay in the Navy and most did not want to join the Army anyway. The simplest thing was just to allow this rump end of the RNAS to continue until the end of the war when the whole thing would be scaled down, most men demobbed and then hand things over to the Army.
Tim. Just getting around to follow up the interesting points you have posted.(RAF expert, alas no,expertise in balancing the current account more likely).It was some years ago while revisiting the formation of the British air arm and RN through steam propulsion engineering that the formation of the FAA interested me. As a RAF inductee,the background to the formation of the RAF was emphasised during early lectures....formation on the "1 April" 1918 gave rise to a few sniggers as I recall during my era. As regards designations during the discussions around what would be the FAA,a mention was made of the "Air Branch" As regards the ratio of RAF/RN manning on the formation of the FAA,as I see it, the majority were RAF.I think that the reason for this was that the RAF Coastal Area had been set up by the RAF in December 1919 and fleet working responsibilities were then transferred to the eventual FAA.They had the initiative since the RAF prime leadership were ex RFC and the RNAS was defunct with at the time little being done to resurrect the RN dimension in flying either on land or at sea....this situation changed in the early 1920s when the ructions started ..Wilson the CIGS, favouring an Army takeover since he was dead against an independent Air Force and the RN wanting to claw back their seen as right, responsibility for air operations as the RNAS had performed in the Great War....these were mounted from land as well as aircraft carriers.Then overall from this two line attack on the RAF organisation an excuse was tabled....the country's economical position brought up by Wilson, supported by the Geddes Committee report on reducing government expenditure. Trenchard had a real battle to keep his new independent air force from being short lived....but his plans to lay down the foundation of the RAF continued throughout his tenure of the RAF..... Cranwell officer training,Halton Apprentice scheme,updating the organisation with new aircraft and then overall to match the requirements of overseas and colonial commitments were all his achievements in difficult times. At sea, the RAF flying element was distinct from the RN who owned the asset.the RAF contingent was headed by a F/L and the pilot rank was Flying Officer although I have noted the odd P/O on the strength.From that manning structure, RN volunteers pilots joining the RAF element on carriers were assimilated into the rank of Flying Officer which was equivalent to the RN or RM rank of Lt.It was not uncommon to see a Capt RM listed as a Flying Officer, and as a F/L i/c RAF carrier flying.Other examples listed show a Lt Cdr RN acting as a F/L i/c of RAF carrier flying..F/L being below his RN rank status.These RN volunteers would wear RAF uniform and as said be eligible for promotion through RAF ranks...that was the agreement. One drawback of the RAF manning and I would refer to this as succession failure was that arising from the period of detachment which was similar to a tour of the Second World War but much longer.(The RAF in the Second World War, when creating new 3 flight squadrons would always have an experienced flight as the foundation block for the new squadron) When RAF personnel were posted back from fleet service to shore units,the continuity of expertise was lost and the new personnel had to be worked up with the risk of a reduced proficiency. The RN element also contributed to this unsatisfactory state of affairs.The RN volunteer scheme was based on a 4 year detachment which could be repeated to the discretion of the Admiralty.In a nutshell, the FAA was not being manned by permanent staffs but on the detachment system. Groundcrew would be RAF for the flying element detachment. and it would appear that the RN discipline on board was not to their liking.They had to have their work organised into two watches which was alien to them but being part of RN culture on board, they received their daily measure of rum or grog.Their RAF uniform drew RN comment of crabfat soldiers...crabfat being the colour described of the paint of the carriers which resembled the colour of the RAF uniform. Naval uniform with aviator wings seems to be appropriate but outside the agreement.One never knows that certain individuals might have resorted to their own style of uniform as long as it was not specified formal dress.
From: Fleet Air Arm, Naval Aviation, Royal Navy Air Service History 1925 Royal Navy personnel attached to RAF duties to wear foul anchor, surrounded by a laurel wreath, superimposed on the wings of an albatross each with nine feathers, outstretched on either side of the border, height 30 mm, width 56 mm. In the case of officers it is surmounted by a King's crown. Tim
In case there's interest I have come across the following from the 1920 Navy List. For example: I presume the Hon. Capt is due to the fact the RAF were still using Army ranks at this time. Tim
