A/B F Cheadle on our memorial

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by morsehorse, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Hello All

    I have been rersearching our war memorial - Meriden West Midlands (was Warwickshire)
    We have one man who is not on CWGC, overseas deaths for Navy.
    Only named as A/B F Cheadle. Possibly merchant navy although I have no idea if records exist for them.
    I have searched Ancestry but without knowing his given name, I am struggling.
    I would be obliged if anyone could give me some pointers as to what to try next.
    My only theory is that he died after the war and the CWGC cut off date. So far I have found nothing to prove it either way.
    There is a local family on the 1939 register - Edwin 4/7/1899 and Hilda Elizabeth 19/10/01, although I have not raced any kids for them.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you

    Sapper
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  3. Mathsmal

    Mathsmal Senior Member

    Hi

    I think I have found your man.

    He is listed in the Coventry Telegraph roll of honour, June 16th 1941. He is not F, but Henry J (also refered to as Harry) Cheadle, whose family lived at Fillongley Road, Meriden. He died on HMS Hood, as a Petty Officer. There is also an article from May 8th 1940 detailing his experiences at Narvik. Even though he isn't F Cheadle, I can't imagine two men with that name in Meriden, who both were in the Royal Navy and died in the Second World War?

    I'll send you the two news stories.

    Matt
     
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  4. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    In the Navy Death registers he is:

    CHEADLE, Henry John
    No: P/JX.624923
    Rank: A/PO
    Royal Navy
    HMS Hood
    born 20.7.1916 in Stanwick, Northants
    died at sea 24.5.1941

    He is remembered on the HMS Hood Association website, but with no further information
    H.M.S. Hood Association-Battle Cruiser Hood: Crew Information - H.M.S. Hood Roll of Honour, Memorial to Petty Officer Henry John Cheadle

    This seems to be his birth registration:

    Henry J Cheadle
    Registration Date: Jul 1916 [Aug 1916] [Sep 1916]
    Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration district: Thrapston
    Inferred County: Northamptonshire
    Mother's Maiden Name: Hardy
    Volume Number: 3b
    Page Number: 310
     
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  5. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Hello Matt

    Wow. I looked at him the other day and he is the only Cheadle to be on the Navy overseas deaths. I did the overseas Navy for IFCP and could not find proof. As you say, it has to be him and I will base my research around him now.
    I look forward to seeing the articles. I did some work on the CT roll of honour a few years ago but never thought to check it for Meriden!
    I am in your debt. My expertise is WW1 and in particualr the 9th Nott's and Derby's.

    Best Regards and thank you

    Sapper
     
  6. Mathsmal

    Mathsmal Senior Member

    I did send you a private message, but I am not sure I can attach files for some reason.
     
  7. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Whilst Petty Officer Henry (Harry) John Cheadle, MAY be your man, there are many instances of Merchant Navy seamen NOT recorded on CWGC.
    I can't guess what rank or trade is meant by A/B (Assistant Baker, Acting Boatswain or Artificer Bloke) but none of those would seem likely for a Petty Officer.... so could F Cheadle be a brother or other family relative for the Meriden Cheadle family?

    If someone went to the trouble of ensuring he was included in the Meriden WW2 War Memorial plaque, "someone" must have put the name forward, so should have known if he was an F Cheadle, and not an H J? To
    make an error on a Name seems a bit casual, and I'd assume that there had to be some verification by a War Memorial committee or in the Church records. Would anyone know if the Church has the Minutes of their meetings?
    Could there have been 2 Cheadle family lost in WW2?

    What would be meant by A/B? In the RAF I'd guess Air Bomber.....
     
  8. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Well-Known Member

    or Acting Bombardier ?

    Graham.
     
  9. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Whilst I'd agree that it seems slipshod to get the wrong initial on the memorial it's not unknown and I've found a few wrong initials and even name spellings on WW1 memorials - usually the result of a badly written list given to the stone mason.What seems more surprising is the idea that there might be two men named Cheadle in Meriden killed and only one on the memorial - but again that sort of thing is not entirely unknown.
     
  10. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Thank you all for your input.
    I have checked all CWGC deaths - not there
    I have checked the overseas and UK deaths - no F Cheadle. Also the Merchant Marine memorials (just in case!)
    When working on Navy and RAF overseas deaths for WW2, I never came across A/B other than able seaman ( although anything is possible)
    He is listed as Acting Petty Officer, therefore A/B could have been used.
    I have found two 'possible' relatives marrying in 1940 and 1941.
    Why add an entry for H J and not F in the Evening telegraph roll of honour?
    My WW1 experience has taught me that it is not over until it is over - long way to go and records to check. I have also found many instances of incorrect names, initials, men not actually dying until the mid 30s. Parish councils, even today, want to add men who did not get on memorials, without wondering why a man was not added.
    The Cheadle family seem to have come from Northants as he was born there in 1916.
    There is still a long way to go but after years of nothing, we have a possible. It gives me his birth, I can get his parents from that and then research the family. He may well have a brother 'F' and I have not discounted that.
    Once again thanks all

    Sapper
     
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  11. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Possibly will not allow such things until I have enough replies to my name?
    my email morse(dot)steve (at) btinternet.com . Iam sure you can fill in the dot and at :) :)
     
  12. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    I believe that this is a mistaken identity case and should be the HMS Hood chap on the memorial...

    Acting Bombardier, CHEADLE, FRANK
    Service Number 63866
    Died 19/09/1916
    "D" Bty. 96th Bde.
    Royal Field Artillery

    Casualty

    See the last name on this Meriden WW1 online memorial:

    Meriden War Memorial - War Memorials Online

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  13. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Act Bombardier Frank Cheadle has no links with the midlands let alone Meriden
    Frank Cheadle - born Exeter, Devon, lived in Lancashire and enlisted in Keithley Yks.
    SER lists mother Bessie and 1911 has them 'up't North) :)

    Thanks
    Sapper (Steve)
     
  14. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Steve, I think you've cracked it...
    A/B F Cheadle SHOULD have been included in the WW1 panel.
    CHEADLE, FRANK. Acting Bombardier. Service Number 63866. Died 19/09/1916.
    "D" Bty. 96th Bde. Royal Field Artillery
    Commemorated at THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Pier and Face 1 A and 8 A.

    For some reason he was omitted, or the panel with his name was used for the WW2 Fallen, and H J Cheadle omitted, presumably as thought to be the Cheadle already on it.

    On second thoughts, the Panel photographed ends at P West (which would seem right, if alphabetical) but as there are many more Names, there must be a second Panel for WW1 which hasn't been photographed.....
    [​IMG]

    OF YOUR CHARITY PRAY FOR THE SOULS OF THOSE WHO FELL IN THE GREAT WAR

    Names:
    Great War - Captain Edward Nugent Bankes, Trooper Percy Edgar Bowen, Lance Corporal Stanley Waterton Cook, Lieutenant Reginald Ernest Melly, Private John Herbert Massey, Private Louis Callow, Second Lieutenant Kenneth Selby Waters, Private Leonard Russell, Private Joseph Albert Jeffcott, Lance Corporal Phillip West,
    ?? Panel 2 ??
    (A/B F Cheadle)
    Captain Edgar Godfrey Izon, Gunner George Davies, Private George Harold Timms Poole (there's no photo of these Names, presumably still WW1 Fallen?

    Second World War - Leading Stoker Geoffrey Ralph Ingersoll Brett, Gunner James Arthur Huntbach, First Officer John Charles Shirley, Sergeant John Henry Hollis, Private Douglas Glynn Harries, Private John Leslie Higginson,
     
  15. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Regardless of if Acting Bombardier Frank Cheadle was from Meriden or elsewhere, he is still a WWI casualty, not WWII and should not be on Meriden’s WWII panel.

    I believe Acting Petty Officer Henry ‘Harry’ John Cheadle should be named on the WWII panel; messages No. 3 and 4 refer.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  16. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    WW1 local memorials were not always logical. For example my village had two one in the church and one in the local school, some men are on both, some are on one but not the other, there are men from the neighbouring village and some just appear to be missing. I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions.
     
  17. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Agree but I have to prove it :)
    As for errors - Lance Corporal Stanley Waterton Cooke (WW1) on the memorial was listed for nearly 100 years as on Basra Memorial until I proved otherwise. He and 20 odd Pals died on Gallipoli. To err is human :)
     
  18. morsehorse

    morsehorse Member

    Received with thanks.

    Thank you for the help and advice.
    I have navy overseas GRO refs if you ever need a lookup.

    Steve
     

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