In an infrequent series of threads about items in my collection that relate to the British/Commonwealth sphere in some way, usually battles and actions against them, here is an item that is a bit closer to the British arena. It is a Soldbuch to a German soldier who served in a panzer division's signals unit which is so far so good and all quite normal for a German soldier and his Soldbuch. However what relates this particular item and man to the British sphere is that he was born in Manchester. Thanks to Alistair who had a look on Ancestry it has been possible to unearth some of his British details. He was born in 1909 in Barton Upon Irwell which is Salford and by the 1911 census the family were living at 10 Highfield Drive, Monton Green which is in Eccles so both locations match with the entry at the top of page 2 in the Soldbuch which confirms his location of birth as Manchester, England. I have had a look on Google Earth at the Monton Green address but it looks as if the houses situated there now are of a later design - 1930's maybe, possible later, although housing designs are really not my area at all. His father Alfred was a German foreign correspondent and his mother Louise was English. I don't have any information for what happened to them when WW-1 broke out so don't know whether they remained in the UK and rode out the anti-German feelings or returned to Germany. I can't see the UK authorities allowing a German correspondent to remain in the country upon the outbreak of war so I would assume they went to Germany in the build up or upon the outbreak of WW1. I have found the mention of a Paul Lorenz as being a witness at the wedding of an Oscar Schwengber & Florence Abbott in December 1902 in Chorlton on Medlock (which is to the south of Manchester city centre now) so it seems the area had a German community. Back to the soldier, he was nearly 34 when he joined the German Army which is quite old to be called up for the first time so it would either reflect the need for additional manpower to replace the horrendous losses or he served in another branch of the Wehrmacht and was transferred across to the Heer in 1943. It is also possible he originally served in a reserved occupation which prevented him being called up and that all changed in 1943. His occupation is listed as being a commerce employee. He was assigned to the signals unit of 4.Panzer-Division in late 1943 so saw service on the Eastern Front until the wars end. As 4.Panzer-Division had a reputation as being one of the best panzer units he would of been in the vicinity of a lot of heavy fighting. Although he never won any combat related awards (he was awarded a War Merit Cross in January 1945) it is difficult to believe he wasn't involved in some combat from time to time especially if & when Russian troops penetrated the lines. I have no idea what happened to him after the war but he is not listed in the Volksbund as being killed and the award of the War Merit Cross in January 1945 shows he made it at least that far.
Thank you for adding that. Interesting to see that one of the 3 children died by the time of this census.
England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 Name: Alfred Walter Lorenz Registration Year: 1909 Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun Registration district: Barton Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 712 TD Alfred Walter Lorenz 1909 Apr-May-Jun Barton Lancashire Alfred P Lorenz 1911 Oct-Nov-Dec Barton Lancashire Gertrude Lorenz 1908 Jul-Aug-Sep Barton Lancashire
Not sure at all if this is the same person - he seems to have been using Walter [Walther] more than Alfred to possibly avoid confusion with his father Web: Bremen, Germany, Passenger Lists Index, 1907-1939 Name: Walther Lorenz Gender: Männlich (Male) Nationality: Deutsch Departure Age: 14 Birth Year: abt 1909 Residence Year: 1923 Residence Place: Ludwigsburg Departure Date: 7 Mrz 1923 (7 Mar 1923) Departure Place: Bremen Destination Place: OH Arrival Place: Mantua Origin: Württemberg Ship: President Arthur Shipping Line: Nordd. Lloyd, Bremen Passenger Number: 19 URL: http://212.227.236.244/passagi... Cant find who else he may have been travelling with at the moment - I doubt he would be travelling alone in 1923, wonder if his father was sent across to USA as a correspondent?? TD Looking deeper at files he travelled with his mother [Frieda] and sister [Marianne] so not the right man Bremen Passenger Lists
If they were in the UK at the outbreak of WW1, in August 1914 the British Government passed the Aliens Restrictions Act which meant anyone believed to be a threat to national security was interned at various camps in the British Isles, some of which were on the Isle of Man. Others were initialy held at Lancaster Castle. Knockaloe Internment Camp - Wikipedia
Thank you for the details so far. I have access to the US Ancestry site and can see that his father Alfred is mentioned a few times in UK records for the Lancashire region but unfortunately it doesn't let me access the records held on the UK site so the information you have passed is appreciated.
Might be him or rather Walters father 1891 England Census Name: Alfred Lorenz Gender: Male Age: 16 Relationship: Son Birth Year: 1875 Father: Hermann Lorenz Mother: Agnes Lorenz Birth Place: Germany Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Residence Place: Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Sub Registration District: Toxteth Park ED, Institution or Vessel: 50 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2933 Folio: 41 Household Members: Name Age Hermann Lorenz 41 Agnes Lorenz 23 Alfred Lorenz 16 Elsa Lorenz 15 Blanche Lorenz 2 Albert Lorenz 6/12 His father Hermann (Walters grandparent) is noted as a 'confectioner' TD Blanche & Albert were born in UK, all the others were born in Germany
That is a great additional piece of information. It looks like they lived at 45 Rhiwlas Street which was one of the so called Welsh Streets. The area seems to be going through an extensive regeneration project but the buff coloured house seen here is the house his father lived in as a child.
Looks like they moved to there from London 1881 England Census Name: Alfred Lorenz Age: 7 Estimated birth year: abt 1874 Relationship to Head: Son Father: Herman Lorenz Mother: Anna Lorenz Gender: Male Where born: (F), Germany Civil Parish: St James County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 2 Upper Rupert St Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Westminster Sub Registration District: Berwick Street ED, institution, or vessel: 47 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 125 Folio: 50 Page Number: 1 Household Members: Name Age Herman Lorenz 32 (Hermann in 1891) Anna Lorenz 32 (Agnes in 1891) Alfred Lorenz 7 Eliza Lorenz 5 (Elsa in 1891) Something is odd here as in 1891 Hermann and his wife are 18years difference in age, yet here they are the same age, its possible Hermann had 2 wives, Anna died sometime just after 1881 and then he remarried (to Agnes). More searching to do TD
Wonder if this is the second marriage ?? England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name: Hermann Lorenz Registration Year: 1887 Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec Registration district: Cheltenham Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Gloucestershire Volume: 6a Page: 832 Records on Page: Name Agnes Denton Alice Maud M M Jaeger Hermann Lorenz TD
This has really helped to add some flesh to the item. It seems as if the Lorenz family had put some roots down in the UK.
Just a small addition - with the information provided above and also a link provided by Alistair I ordered a copy of his birth certificate to go with his Soldbuch. By the looks of it, the Paul briefly mentioned above as a witness at a wedding in 1902 may well of been his father.
