Does anyone know what someone who served on Belfast from Feb 1942 to 1946 would have earned I’m guessing 1939-45 star Arctic France and Germany Pacific War Regards James
Hi James Here is the MOD parameters - Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility - GOV.UK No more than 5 stars may be awarded to one person. Those who qualify for more are awarded a clasp with the title of one of the stars to which they qualify. The clasp is then attached to the ribbon of one of the other stars. If you qualify for 2 or 3 of the Atlantic, Air Crew Europe and France and Germany stars, the first star earned is awarded. You will then receive a clasp with the title of the second star earned to be worn on the ribbon of the first. A third star or clasp will not be awarded in this case. Gets a bit tricky methinks about the stars - so from your list France & Germany may have been a clasp - or the other way around - not sure TD
To get the Atlantic star in 1944 you need 12 months on Atlantic runs as the 1939-45 star was needed first. 6 months was required for both. The France and Germany star only needed 1 day and no prior 1939-45 star So joined feb 1944 as 1st ship 4 months towards 1939-45 star 6 June 1944 1 day service for F&G star another 2 months got him the 1939-45 star then sailed to Pacific where he qualified for the Pacific star Arctic was 1 day service and Belfast was on arctic runs feb 1944-June 1944 I do not believe he had enough sea time for the Atlantic star
Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility The Atlantic Star is awarded for operational service in the Atlantic and home waters between 3 September 1939 and 8 May 1945 (2 September 1945 in Far East). To apply for the Atlantic Star, you must have already qualified for the 1939 to 1945 Star and have an additional: 180 days operational service or any 6 months afloat in the army 180 days operational service afloat as ground crew in the RAF 60 days operational service as aircrew in the RAF 180 days afloat in operational areas in the Royal Navy TD
The mod have the qualification times wrong as Atlantic star qualification time ended 8 may 1945. The Far East time is ineligible for Atlantic star as it was awarded for Atlantic service It looks like they copied the criteria from the 1939-45 star As he only joined 1944 they was not enough time I believe. The Far East service qualified for Pacific and Burma stars.
You had either one OR the other it was not AND - having been awarded either then the other could be added but only as a clasp The Pacific Star is awarded for operational service in Malaya, Singapore, China, Hong Kong or Sumatra between 8 December 1941 and 2 September 1945. To apply for the Pacific Star, you must have: 1 day of operational service in the army 1 day of operational service as ground crew in the RAF 1 operational sortie as aircrew in the RAF 1 day afloat in operational areas in the Royal Navy and already qualified for the 1939 to 1945 Star The colours of the ribbon represent the jungle, the beaches and the 3 services. If you also qualify for the Burma Star, you will only be awarded the first star you earned. You will then receive a clasp with the title of the second star earned, which is worn on the ribbon of the first. The Burma Star is awarded for operational service in Burma between 11 December 1941 and 2 September 1945. Those serving in Bengal and Assam in India and China, Hong Kong, Malaya or Sumatra between other specified dates may also qualify. To apply for the Burma Star, you must have: 1 day of operational service in the army 1 day of operational service as ground crew in the RAF 1 operational sortie as aircrew in the RAF 1 day afloat in operational areas in the Royal Navy and already qualified for the 1939 to 1945 Star The colours of the ribbon represent the sun, British and Commonwealth forces. If you also qualify for the Pacific Star, you will only be awarded the first star earned. You will then receive a clasp with the title of the second star earned which is worn on the ribbon of the first. Would you care to expand on that - as the criteria on the link provided has been used since any of the medals inceptions TD
It’s an impossibility for the Atlantic star to be awarded after 8th May 1945. The area of operational service was the Atlantic Ocean and excluded the Russian convey arctic zone and south Atlantic near South Africa Hence when Germany surrendered it cease to exist In your original statement you wrote 3rd Sept 1939 -5th may 1945 (2nd September 1945 for service In Far East) The above entry is the qualification time for the 1939-45 star only and on the mod site has been incorrectly copied onto the Atlantic star as well as the 1939-45 star The only campaign stars awarded after 8th May were the 1939 45 star Pacific star and Burma Star. I accept I should have written either Pacific or Burma as not all veterans received both (by the use of a bar to signify the other) but was trying to point out the only area stars available were these 2 Also service for the France and Germany star could not count towards qualification time for the Atlantic star. Regards James
And mod now has the maximum number of stars awarded wrong It used to be 5 but with the creation of the arctic star the maximum is now six Before the award of the creation of the arctic star the maximum permissible number of campaign stars awarded was 7 (this was 5 campaign stars and 2 bars to signify the other 2 stars ) No one was allowed to wear or be issued all 8 campaign stars but The only ones who were missed were aircrew (either RAF or RN) because if they qualified for ACE Atlantic and F&G only the 1st star earnt was awarded followed by the 2nd as a named bar they were not allowed to wear 2 bars to show eligibility for all 3 stars. Hope this clarifies
I wrote nothing of the sort - I quoted MOD regulations,rules whatever you want to call them I guess from your responses you are not happy at all with what MOD have set for their recommendations, if that is the case can I suggest you contact them and air your grievances, as I have only copied their rules and stop saying its my fault!! TD
The MoD site is indeed wrong. Wiki helps a bit, especially with defining the operational areas. Atlantic Star - Wikipedia Burma Star - Wikipedia Pacific Star - Wikipedia Tim
TD I do not have a problem, you asked me to expand on why I believe the statement from the MoD was wrong. No where in my above posts have I said it is your fault, i actually stated several times The MoD have it wrong. The MCA are just as bad as they have a document for the award of medals to merchant seaman that states Addu Atoll qualified for the Pacific star but as it is no where near the Pacific it actually qualifies for the Burma Star. I have had many a fight with the medal office and have successful got many relations medals issued and have helped veterans claim theirs after the medal office said they were not entitled. Regards
Slightly off thread. I don't think Addu Atoll qualified for the Burma Star. It would qualify (other conditions being met) for the Defence Medal. Tim
It did qualify as my grand father was awarded it for service at addu atoll Ceylon qualified for defence medal.
Now that is interesting as Addu Atoll is outwith the area for the Burma Star which was to the east of a line running due south from Ceylon. In addition the Maldives are specifically mentioned as qualifying for the Defence Medal (non-operational areas subjected to enemy air attack or closely threatened). Tim
I queried with the MoD how my grandfather qualified for the Burma Star as he served Boom Defence at Ceylon and Port T (Addu Atoll) I initially thought it was for Ceylon hms highflyer and HMS Lanka but that only qualified for the defence medal which was issued a couple of years ago. They informed me it was service at Port T the secret naval base. But as I have already shown above the MoD page is full of errors and it may have been issued in error Indeed I have researched another sailor who only served in Ceylon and the East Indies squadron who qualified and was issued both Burma star and Pacific clasp but I can find nothing on his record to show going into the Pacific theatre.
I’ve just consulted my atlas and as the Bay of Bengal is a qualification for the Burma star, Trincomalee HMS Highflyer is on the east coast of Ceylon just below the Bay of Bengal and should qualify Hms Lanka was Colombo which was west side of Ceylon and the Maldives was west of Ceylon So the mod have it wrong again.
Well worked out. So it was Burma Star for HMS Highflyer and Defence Medal for Addu Atoll. All now makes sense. Presumably you had to be on a ship attached to HMS Highflyer (which your grandfather was) rather than the shore base which would have qualified one for the Defence Medal. Like you I've come across errors. Awarded both Burma and Pacific Stars for instance. I don't actually think it was always the Medal Office's (or whatever it was then called) fault as I presume entitlement to a Star was determined by the Unit holding the records and they then made a Return of qualified personnel to the Medal Office. At the time they would not have access to the Service Records. Easy enough for a Writer/Clerk to misinterpret the rules especially when they often changed during the War. No excuse though for the MoD making mistakes now. Tim
Hi Tim Yes Served HMS Barmill at Trincomlee Columbo and Addu atoll 1st Port T then HMS Haitian Also served ashore at the barracks at all 3 places, he then went to France on Kerriemoor he was denied the Atlantic Star due to insufficient time, even though I showed via service record he had enough sea time in the Atlantic, yet if he had served a couple more weeks the rules were changed to 1 day service rather than the 180 days needed. They told me Kerriemoor is not on the approved list for award of Atlantic star so I think you are right it was a quick check of ship name against eligibility criteria
