Argenta Gap:- 2 Lancashire Fusiliers / 11 Infantry Brigade

Discussion in 'Italy' started by jamesmurrow, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. jamesmurrow

    jamesmurrow Senior Member

    Stu, many thanks for your postings, very informative. Dad was a member of 'D'Company's 16 Platoon, and part of a Bren-gun team.
    Always interesting to note how someone's post ignites so much more.
    Bless you Ron for all your memories
    All the best everyone
    James
     
  2. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    For all those that have a interest in this thread, I have finally changed a PDF document to JPEG. What struck me about the copy that I have & the one the that has been converted is the difference in price of the booklet over the years. Mine cost me around about £30.00, but whilst looking through the PDF version it has a price of only (60 pence)! The PDF doc cost me nothing so I'm willing to share.
    78th Div-100.jpg
    78th Div-101.jpg
    78th Div-102.jpg

    If anyone wants a copy, then start a conversation with myself & will send on. It really is a tidy copy.

    Regards,
    Stu.
     
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  3. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Stu,

    Brill....I've just been re-reading the 8th Army history as well as General McCreery's biog and the maps speak volumes

    My thoughts always turn to my dear Dad whenever the last campaign in Italy is remembered - in his words:

    "The speed of the advance was phenomenal and casualties were light. Having reached our objective, the Conselice Canal, the battalion dug in for the night. I followed in a jeep, laden with a cooked meal, in the tracks left by the armour. It was comparatively peaceful as I crossed the Senio, now Bailey-bridged, on my way north behind the battalion and saw the double-banked Churchills of the early crossings. I served the meal for the company. As I finished, a corporal from a troop of recovery tanks approached. ‘Any overs left for my chaps, Dickie?,’ he asked. It was McVeigh from the Corpus Christi Football team.

    Each day, the battalion fought and advanced rapidly while I had to return for cooked meals, haversack rations and, of course, the hot cakes. This meant I seldom had time for sleep. We crossed the canal and went on to the rivers Santerno and the Reno. At each obstacle, we would halt and stay overnight. This would give me the opportunity to catch up on a little sleep.

    At almost the last halt, I was held up by a column of traffic. Directly behind me were trucks carrying reinforcements. I went back to speak to them, as some were returned wounded. I vaguely recognised one and asked him about his company. He claimed to have been with another company and was returning from hospital. Then I remembered. He was the young soldier so shaken by shellfire near Piedimonte the previous May that he had run away the same evening. I later learned he had spent the time since in prison. He had been afraid. So had we all. I was terrified, but had a greater fear: to be seen to be frightened. I was Rosie. It meant baring my teeth in a smile, regardless.

    We had arrived at the Po. During the last days of the offensive, we had passed a most distressing sight. Beautiful draught horses had been shot dead and lay bloated and stinking. The Germans had killed them rather than let them live and remain for us. Most had been commandeered from the unfortunate Italians. They had lost so much. Their beautiful country had been destroyed from Sicily to the Po and occupied by aliens from all over the world.

    The south bank of the Po was an extraordinary scene. The Germans, trapped by the river, had abandoned everything. Many had even tried to swim the Po to escape and many died as a result. The carnage of war continued relentlessly as if it were now on a form of autopilot.

    The company rested by the side of Po while the Royal Engineers set about bridging its mile width. I arranged a campfire and ‘drunk’ using Canadian beer and hot rum toddy. Corporal Howarth was, as usual, master of ceremonies. When directed, each person had to sing...."
     
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  4. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    I would just like to add that I've been reading the trilogy of books (twice on a chap called John Horsfall.) What brilliant books they are! The respect that he has for his other ranks is second to none. He & Brigadier T.P.D Scott, C.B.E., D.S.O. Commander of the 38 Irish Brigade seemed to have got on rather well.

    Say not the Struggle... Kineton: The Roundwood Press 1977. £3.75.
    The Wild Geese are Fighting. Kineton: The Roundwood Press 1976. £2.30.
    Fling our Banner to the Wind. KINETON: THE ROUNDWOOD PRESS 1978.£4.25. I have never read a account of a Regiment/Division that OR'S get a mention has much has the Officers. If only anybody could pay the price has when the books first came out? I paid a fair price for all three. I've seen some book shops who will take a liberty for the coin that they are asking..

    Regards,
    Stu.
     
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  5. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Yes John Horsfall was a truly remarkable officer indeed and his books certainly reflect the man.. his obit can be read here: Colonel John Coldwell-Horsfall

    My father remembered first meeting Horsfall at a battle training course in 1942:
    "The students were a mixed bag of officers, sergeants and corporals from all the nine battalions in the Division. It was run on commando lines. Corporal Howard and I shook everyone when we were called on parade. As riflemen, we marched at 120 paces to the minute and would be standing at ease on the parade ground while the others were just about sloping arms. We were told to cut down our speed.

    Among our students was young Captain John Coldwell-Horsfall of the Royal Irish Fusiliers. On the final day, there was an exercise. The platoon in attack was commanded by me. The runner was Captain Horsfall. I gave the section leaders their orders clearly and the attack by sections began. Finally, the school commander shouted: ‘Enemy in retreat. Pursue your enemy.’ I led the platoon as it ran in a line with bayonets fixed. Before us was a river. ‘What do we do?’ shouted an officer who was a section leader. ‘Follow me,’ I shouted and jumped into the fast stream. The water came up to my neck. The course commander shouted from the bank: ‘Come back! I’m only allowed 5 per cent casualties.’ I had almost 30 soldiers in the water in hot pursuit..."


    The citation for the DSO/MC and bar for John Horsfall are also attached.

    There is an excellent painting of John Horsfall, Pat Scott and Bala Bredin, at the time CO of 6 Innisks, which shows the scene on 15th May '44 when Major Horsfall took over command of 2 LIR - my father helped to bury Lt-Col Goff
    David Rowlands Military Artist
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Richard,
    i do thank-you for the information that you have given. What do think of the Royal Inniskilling Fusililers in the Second World War By Sir Frank Fox, O.B.E.? I would also like your opinion on the London Irish Rifles At War. Published on behalf of the London Irish Rifles Old Comrades' Association. Sorry for all of the questions.

    Thanks for your time.
    Regards,
    Stu.
     
  7. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Apologies to James M for hijacking his thread..

    Fox - I haven't got it myself but have read it a couple of times...obviously covers 1st, 2nd and 6th Bns...my thoughts were that it was ok...not overly exciting.

    LIR at War - Does what it says on the tin.. I've put up a transcription of it here on the LIR website - without photos which I should really add.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  8. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Some extra information here about the 2 Lancashire Fusiliers and the Fossa Marina, grid references plotted on the map.

    P2250930.JPG Fossa Marina.jpg
     
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  9. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Richard,

    Apologies myself for hijacking the thread.:oops: I have got your conversation & have seen what you have done. Cheers for that & i will get back to you about other things re 78 Division if that is OK with yourself? I know that I got away from 11 Brigade, but just wanted to bring the attention to other members of the books. I will have a look at John Hallam's book on the Fusiliers to see If anything can be added?

    Regards,
    Stu.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  10. jamesmurrow

    jamesmurrow Senior Member

    Many thanks Tony56, that clears matters up for me very well.:salut:
    Sorry for delay in replying.
     
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