South Lancashire Regiment

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by dave 1SLANR, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. dave 1SLANR

    dave 1SLANR Willys Jeep

    Thanks Tom. I'd totally missed that, hence going straight to Bdes rather than clearing up the Bn/Bde confusion. Apologies Dave!

    Dave, WRT the vehicle AoS markings, your gen is correct but incomplete - here is a full list of markings for the Inf Bdes in an Inf Div;

    Senior Inf Brigade - (all on Red square);
    - Bde HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 81
    - Senior Inf Bn: White 55
    - Intermediate Inf Bn: White 56
    - Junior Inf Bn: White 57

    Intermediate Inf Brigade - (all on Green square);
    - Bde HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 87
    - Senior Inf Bn: White 60
    - Intermediate Inf Bn: White 61
    - Junior Inf Bn: White 62

    Junior Inf Brigade - (all on Brown square);
    - Bde HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 94
    - Senior Inf Bn: White 67
    - Intermediate Inf Bn: White 68
    - Junior Inf Bn: White 69

    There are many similar markings for the other units in an Inf Div*, a list of which I will post up if it would be useful to you (or anyone else).

    I believe, though I stand corrected if somebody knows otherwise, that Battalion seniority was worked out from the seniority of the parent Regiment. As Tom explains above, this only has bearing on the vehicle insignia though, not on the men's insignia.

    There is, of course, the isolated practice of one of the Bdes of 53rd Welsh Div, but I shall not go into detail to avoid creating confusion.

    Best Regards,
    Five-Five

    *= Note; Armd Divs used the same system, but with different numbers.

    Thanks Five-Five
    If you don't mind putting up the list you have , I would be grateful

    Dave
     
  2. dave 1SLANR

    dave 1SLANR Willys Jeep

    Hi again, Dave

    Just looked again at the LG using the names shown on the POW questionaire posted by Steve - here are the results (if the link to the search results works....);

    Search Results

    All the best,
    Five-Five

    Thanks again Steve :)
     
  3. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Yes we were issued with Commando knives. With the scabbard down the left hand side of the large pocket on the trousers. The most damage I ever did with mine was to break the tip off opening a tin of soup... By the way, the uniform top is not an original, it is a much later issue.It was sent to me by an old RSM for lecturing purposes... provided I made a payment to the local RBL That I did.... All the badges were added later... again for lecture purpose. As an aside, i gave over 125 lectures talks, Workshops, on the Normandy campaign for the Normandy Vets.,

    To do that I had some great friends that got me there, and set everything up for me. Both those great and dear friends have pssed on......Bless them!
     
  4. dave 1SLANR

    dave 1SLANR Willys Jeep

    You are all being very helpful in providing me with information which is much appreciated.

    I see there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum who seem to be researching and have researched the SLANR .

    I am going off topic a little but I would be very interested in hearing about the 1st Btn. Even though my father was 1st Btn he spoke very little of their/his involvement. He would tell me the areas they were in, but no detail of their/his actions.
     
  5. Five-Five

    Five-Five Senior Member

    Hello Dave,

    Here you are, the complete list of Vehicle AoS Markings for an Inf Div in North-West Europe, June 1944;


    Div HQ - (Black square);
    - Divisional Headquarters: White 40
    - Divisional Provost Company: White 79
    - Divisional Postal Unit: White 80

    Divisional Signals Regiment, Royal Corps of Signals - (White over Blue square);
    - Divisional Signals Regiment: Red 40

    Reconnaissance Regiment, Reconnaissance Corps - (Green over Blue square);
    - Reconnaissance Regiment: White 41

    Divisional MG Battalion - (Black square);
    - Divisional MG Battalion: White 64

    Divisional Royal Artillery Units - (Red over Blue square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Artillery: White 40
    - Field Regiment, RA: White 42
    - Field Regiment, RA: White 43
    - Field Regiment, RA: White 44
    - Anti-Tank Regiment, RA: White 46
    - Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA: White 47

    Divisional Royal Engineers Units - (Cobalt Blue square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Engineers: White 40
    - Field Company, RE: White 48
    - Field Company, RE: White 49
    - Field Company, RE: White 50
    - Field Park Company, RE: White 51
    - Bridging Platoon, RE: White 52

    Divisional Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers (REME) Units - (Blue over Yellow over Red square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Electrical Mechanical Engineers: White 40
    - Infantry Brigade Workshop, REME: White 88
    - Infantry Brigade Workshop, REME: White 89
    - Infantry Brigade Workshop, REME: White 90

    Divisional Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) Units - (Diagonally Red over Green square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Army Service Corps: White 40
    - Infantry Brigade Company, RASC: White 70
    - Infantry Brigade Company, RASC: White 71
    - Infantry Brigade Company, RASC: White 72
    - Divisional Troops Company, RASC: White 73

    Divisional Royal Army Ordnance Corps (RAOC) Units - (Left to right: Blue, Red, Blue square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Army Ordnance Corps: White 40
    - Divisional Infantry Ordnance Park, RAOC: White 52
    - Divisional Mobile Field Laundry & Bath Unit, RAOC: White 92

    Divisional Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) Units - (Black square);
    - Field Ambulance Company, RAMC: White 75
    - Field Ambulance Company, RAMC: White 76
    - Field Ambulance Company, RAMC: White 77
    - Field Hygiene Section, RAMC: White 78
    - Field Dressing Station, RAMC: White 82
    - Field Dressing Station, RAMC: White 83


    Infantry Brigades

    Senior Inf Brigade - (Red square);
    - Brigade HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 81
    - Senior Inf Battalion: White 55
    - Intermediate Inf Battalion: White 56
    - Junior Inf Battalion: White 57

    Intermediate Inf Brigade - (Green square);
    - Brigade HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 87
    - Senior Inf Battalion: White 60
    - Intermediate Inf Battalion: White 61
    - Junior Inf Battalion: White 62

    Junior Inf Brigade - (Brown square);
    - Brigade HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 94
    - Senior Inf Battalion: White 67
    - Intermediate Inf Battalion: White 68
    - Junior Inf Battalion: White 69



    Hope this is of use, it is a complicated system, but once you get to know it, it becomes second nature.

    Best Regards,
    Five-Five
     
  6. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Doubtless there will be many on this forum who are aware of this, but to prevent any incorrect assumptions, it should be pointed out that, while this is valid for INFANTRY divisions in NW Europe in Jun 1944 (and, as far as I can make out, for the rest of the war), other types of division, and even infantry divisions in other theatres, and earlier than 1944, had different schemes. Several people have written whole books on the subject!

    Chris
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Dave,

    Just a slither more on Captain Earle and his time as POW.

    Attached, a page from the file AIR38/80 held at the National Archives. It shows the mini group taken away from Rangoon in May 1943 and sent down to Kempai-Tai HQ.

    The party was known as Group Captain J.W.C. Moore's party according to the document. I do not know much about him, but the others on the list R.16 are all Longcloth Chindit captives with special interest to the Japanese. Earle, Roberts and Campbell-Patterson for their 142 Commando connections, Madchen (Machin) for his fluency in the Japanese language and Gourlay as an Intelligence officer in the Burma Rifles. Of Major Yates I know not.

    The Japanese interest was over-egged, as apart from Earle, all of the others were fairly inexperienced officers at the start of the campaign and knew little if anything of value. Gourlay I do know had previously walked out of Burma during the British retreat in 1941/42.

    Though unrelated to Chindit 1 or Captain Earle, the two men featured at the top of the next mini list, Seagram and Nimmo were big players in Special Forces within Burma during WW2. Seagram was taken away and executed by the Japanese in 1944. There is an excellent book about his exploits called 'Grandfather Longlegs' by Ian Morrison.

    Cheers
     

    Attached Files:

  8. dave 1SLANR

    dave 1SLANR Willys Jeep

    Dave,

    Just a slither more on Captain Earle and his time as POW.

    Attached, a page from the file AIR38/80 held at the National Archives. It shows the mini group taken away from Rangoon in May 1943 and sent down to Kempai-Tai HQ.

    The party was known as Group Captain J.W.C. Moore's party according to the document. I do not know much about him, but the others on the list R.16 are all Longcloth Chindit captives with special interest to the Japanese. Earle, Roberts and Campbell-Patterson for their 142 Commando connections, Madchen (Machin) for his fluency in the Japanese language and Gourlay as an Intelligence officer in the Burma Rifles. Of Major Yates I know not.

    The Japanese interest was over-egged, as apart from Earle, all of the others were fairly inexperienced officers at the start of the campaign and knew little if anything of value. Gourlay I do know had previously walked out of Burma during the British retreat in 1941/42.

    Though unrelated to Chindit 1 or Captain Earle, the two men featured at the top of the next mini list, Seagram and Nimmo were big players in Special Forces within Burma during WW2. Seagram was taken away and executed by the Japanese in 1944. There is an excellent book about his exploits called 'Grandfather Longlegs' by Ian Morrison.

    Cheers

    Thanks again , all these snippits are building up nicely .What is puzzling though is the date on the greatcoat 23/07/40 badged as Col E V Earle ?
     
  9. dave 1SLANR

    dave 1SLANR Willys Jeep

    Hello Dave,

    Here you are, the complete list of Vehicle AoS Markings for an Inf Div in North-West Europe, June 1944;


    Div HQ - (Black square);
    - Divisional Headquarters: White 40
    - Divisional Provost Company: White 79
    - Divisional Postal Unit: White 80

    Divisional Signals Regiment, Royal Corps of Signals - (White over Blue square);
    - Divisional Signals Regiment: Red 40

    Reconnaissance Regiment, Reconnaissance Corps - (Green over Blue square);
    - Reconnaissance Regiment: White 41

    Divisional MG Battalion - (Black square);
    - Divisional MG Battalion: White 64

    Divisional Royal Artillery Units - (Red over Blue square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Artillery: White 40
    - Field Regiment, RA: White 42
    - Field Regiment, RA: White 43
    - Field Regiment, RA: White 44
    - Anti-Tank Regiment, RA: White 46
    - Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA: White 47

    Divisional Royal Engineers Units - (Cobalt Blue square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Engineers: White 40
    - Field Company, RE: White 48
    - Field Company, RE: White 49
    - Field Company, RE: White 50
    - Field Park Company, RE: White 51
    - Bridging Platoon, RE: White 52

    Divisional Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers (REME) Units - (Blue over Yellow over Red square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Electrical Mechanical Engineers: White 40
    - Infantry Brigade Workshop, REME: White 88
    - Infantry Brigade Workshop, REME: White 89
    - Infantry Brigade Workshop, REME: White 90

    Divisional Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) Units - (Diagonally Red over Green square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Army Service Corps: White 40
    - Infantry Brigade Company, RASC: White 70
    - Infantry Brigade Company, RASC: White 71
    - Infantry Brigade Company, RASC: White 72
    - Divisional Troops Company, RASC: White 73

    Divisional Royal Army Ordnance Corps (RAOC) Units - (Left to right: Blue, Red, Blue square);
    - HQ, Divisional Royal Army Ordnance Corps: White 40
    - Divisional Infantry Ordnance Park, RAOC: White 52
    - Divisional Mobile Field Laundry & Bath Unit, RAOC: White 92

    Divisional Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) Units - (Black square);
    - Field Ambulance Company, RAMC: White 75
    - Field Ambulance Company, RAMC: White 76
    - Field Ambulance Company, RAMC: White 77
    - Field Hygiene Section, RAMC: White 78
    - Field Dressing Station, RAMC: White 82
    - Field Dressing Station, RAMC: White 83


    Infantry Brigades

    Senior Inf Brigade - (Red square);
    - Brigade HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 81
    - Senior Inf Battalion: White 55
    - Intermediate Inf Battalion: White 56
    - Junior Inf Battalion: White 57

    Intermediate Inf Brigade - (Green square);
    - Brigade HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 87
    - Senior Inf Battalion: White 60
    - Intermediate Inf Battalion: White 61
    - Junior Inf Battalion: White 62

    Junior Inf Brigade - (Brown square);
    - Brigade HQ & Ground Defence Platoon: White 94
    - Senior Inf Battalion: White 67
    - Intermediate Inf Battalion: White 68
    - Junior Inf Battalion: White 69



    Hope this is of use, it is a complicated system, but once you get to know it, it becomes second nature.

    Best Regards,
    Five-Five

    Thanks Five-Five , the list is very useful
     
  10. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Dave,

    I have been digging a bit recently and also was able to check the Army Lists chasing AV Earle. This is his basic Army history:

    Army lists information. Albert Vivian Earle. Born 1st April 1918.
    South Lancashire Regiment 2nd Lieutenant, First Commission 27th January 1938.

    Army List-July 1940. 2nd Lieutenant.

    Army List-April 1946. Captain.

    Army List-April 1947. Temporary Major.

    Army List-April 1951. Major.

    Army List-August 1953. Qualified Japanese interpreter 1st Class. AV Earle, MBE.

    Army List-April 1956. Officer I/C Cadet Company at Eaton Hall Officer Cadet School, Chester.

    Earle drops off the Army Lists September 1958.

    In the April 1940 lists there is a Lt-Col. EG Earle DSO, he is with the Royal Artillery, he received his first commission in 1914.

    Attached are some images for AV Earle including his signature which I found in the 142 Commando War diary. Perhaps AV became a Colonel in later life in the Territorials or something similar?

    Cheers
     

    Attached Files:

  11. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Dave,

    Latest snippet, Earle's notification to being made up 'Acting Captain' whilst being 2 I/C of 142 Commando in January 1943.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. cvhearle

    cvhearle New Member

    Good morning,

    My name is Mary Earle, my husband is Clive Vivian Earle, the son of Albert Vivian. Clive found your forum while googling information while we were watching the Rememberance Service. We were so interested to read all your posts!

    Sadly Vivian died in 1982 in Zimbabwe. We still have all his medals (all mounted and proudly hung on our wall), maps, belts and cap, and two ceremonial swords (re-nickelled and proudly hung on our wall), and were really pleased to see you had his greatcoat in such good condition. It was also very interested to see his index card from being a POW.

    I will ask Clive or his one of his two sisters to let you have further information,

    Kind regards
    Mary
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hello Mary,

    It is very good to hear from you. I have read the 142 Commando war diaries and your father-in-law features heavily with the raising and training of this unit. I have one or two more pages of the diary which mentions his input.

    I have a website on line that features the Chindits of 1943 and would like very much to include an article about Vivian. He already features once on the site in relation to the training regime for the Commandos, but it would be great to have something more personal.

    I will send you a personal message via the forum and perhaps we could exchange information. You can view my website by clicking on the blue hyperlink seen below all of my forum posts.

    Best wishes

    Steve
     
  14. Urrah

    Urrah Member

    Apologies for dragging an old thread up, but I'm trying to find out who the Officer Commanding was, at the time the Division was fighting around Overloon in 1944?
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just checking that you refer to the 1st Bn South Lancs in 3rd Div?

    edit: page 121 of Delaforce's 'Monty's Ironsides' says Lt-Col Orgill was replaced on October 14th by Major Waller MC.
    Scarfe's 'Assault Division' page 164 also mentions Major Waller MC taking over as CO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  16. Urrah

    Urrah Member

    Yes I do. Sorry, should have clarified that.
     
  17. Ian David Liptrot

    Ian David Liptrot New Member

    Hi all iam a new to the site and have not ever used any sites like this before iam on holiday front nz and have been given my grandfather's army dates , number ,and regiment not sure how to proceed if anyone can steer me along this journey much appreciated cheers Ian Liptrot
     
    Drew5233 likes this.

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