South African Divisions in North Africa

Discussion in 'South African' started by DavidW, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    How, if at all did the make up of a South African Infantry battalion in North Africa differ from the "Standard" Middle East War Establishment in both 1941 and 1942?
     
  2. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I have attached an Appendix from my book on the South African Army to help explain the differences between a standard British infantry battalion and one from the South African Army.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks.

    That gives a good idea of bayonet strength, but what about equipment type and quantities, how did they vary?
    And how did the three rifle companies per battalion system operate? I assume there was no 4th company of any description.
     
  4. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    The closest I can come is the South African Infantry Battalion as approved in 1939:

    Battalion HQ with
    1xWorking Platoon with
    20 Native Soldiers
    1xPioneer Platoon with
    2xSections (10 men) each with
    10x Rifles
    3 Infantry Companies each with
    1xWorking Platoon with
    20 Native soldiers
    3xInfantry Platoons each with
    Platoon HQ with
    3 Sections (10 men) each with
    9x Rifles, 1xLewis LMG
    1x Support Company with
    1x Mortar Platoon with
    2x3" mortars
    3x Machine-Gun Platoons each with
    4xVickers MMG
    3x Working Platoons each with
    20x Native soldiers

    I would imagine that, on arrival in North Africa, the South African Infantry battalions upgraded the Lewis LMGs to Brens to some extent. Other weapons, not on the official TOEs, were also probably obtained. An examination of the some of the South African battalion histories might prove helpful.
     
  5. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that.
    So do you think it safe to assume that they were issued with Sub machine guns, Anti tank rifles, Carriers, 2" Mortars & 2Pdrs more or less up to M.E W.E?
    I've never seen any South African Battalion histories available on-line. Have you?
     
  6. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I can't confirm the issue of these items. You might try and get your hands on some of the South African official histories on the desert campaign:


    Agar-Hamilton, J.A.I. The Sidi Rezegh Battles 1941. Cape Town: Oxford University Press, 1957. (Cornell)

    Agar-Hamilton, J.A.I. Crisis in the Desert May-July 1942. Cape Town: Oxford University Press, 1952. (Cornell)

    As noted, I viewed these at Cornell University library in Ithaca, New York. Try some of the larger university or public libraries nearby. That is where I found most of my South African regimental histories. I live outside New Haven, Connecticut. The libraries at Yale University and the New York Public Library have large collections on WWII, particularly regimental and official histories.

    If I find any other details, I will add them to this thread.
     
  7. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thank you
     
  8. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Supplementary question.

    How were the Companies numbered?
    Was it simply A, B, C & D within each Battalion?
     
  9. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    What about the Machone gun Battalions?

    Safe to assume that they were the same?
     
  10. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    As noted above, there were three companies. From notes I have on some of the battalions it appears that the companies were 'A', 'B' and 'C'.
     
  11. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Was the supprt company "D"?
     
  12. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    I've answered my own question now.
    Yes, the 4th (Support) Company was "D"
     
  13. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know when the Divisional Engineers of the 1st & 2nd Divisions arrived in North Africa?
    I can't find any dates anywhere.
     
  14. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    South Africa had a large engineer commitment to the desert campaign. It is best explained in:


    Orpen, Neil. South Africa at War: Volume VIII-Salute to the Sappers: Volume I - South African Engineer Corps in East Africa and the Middle East 1939-42. Johannesburg: Sappers Association, 1981. (Yale)(Cornell)

    Orpen, Neil. South Africa at War: Volume VIII-Salute to the Sappers: Volume II - South African Engineer Corps in North Africa and Italy 1942-45. Johannesburg: Sappers Association, 1981. (Yale)(Cornell)

    Regarding the engineers in 1st and 2nd South African Divisions, here are the dates that I have:

    1st Field Company, SAEC - 15 June 1941
    2nd Field Company, SAEC - 24 June 1941
    3rd Field Company, SAEC - 14 July 1941
    4th Field Company, SAEC - 24 June 1941
    5th Field Company, SAEC - 18 May 1941
    10th Field Company, SAEC - 24 June 1941
    19th Divisional Field Park Company, SAEC - 16 September 1941
    20th Divisional Field Park Company, SAEC - 24 June 1941
     
  15. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thank you David. Great information as ever.

    Did the South African Field Companies & Field Park Companies differ in any way from their British & Colonial counterparts?
     
  16. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    I am trying to trace records of my father, Allan Gerald Vincent, born 22.8.22, who was in the Natal Field Artillery, and my uncle, George Albert Jefferies, born 21.8.22, who was in another regiment, possibly the Natal Mounted Rifles. How can I trace their details? They were both captured in Egypt and sent to POW camps in Italy. My father was near Perugia somewhere.
     
  17. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know how closely the two South African Divisions were to fulfilling their M.E.W.E?

    Either upon arrival in Egypt, or subsequently?

    Thanks in advance ,
    David.
     

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