Does anyone know if the 86th Anti-tank Regiment (of XII Corps) had Achilles or Archers? I was just looking at other places I might visit on my trip... "hm, the Keep Military Museum... 86th Anti-Tank? I don't even have them in my list!" I wonder if all the corps units got 17-pounder M-10s, early, and then kept them. So far I believe I have confirmed that the 62nd (I Corps) and 91st (VII Corps) had those, and not any Valentine SPs. Cheers, Chris
86th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery The thread above should be of interest. I think the unit has been mentioned a couple of other times on here if you do a search
My late father was with the 86th (Wally Slemmings). Their original equipment was two batteries the self-propelled M-10 armed with the original US 3-inch gun and two batteries of 17-pounders towed by Quad gun tractors. At some stage, probably just after D-Day (the regiment landed around D+11) the 3-inch gun was phased out and replaced by the M-10 17-pounder while the Quads were replaced by gutted Crusaders known as Crusader Gun Tractors. He was still alive when I mentioned the 'Achilles' name and he said he had never heard it used. He said they were always called 'M-10 17-pounders'. Some books suggest that both the Achilles and Archer names are actually post-war appellations. Examination of other similar regiments suggests that some landed in Normandy with roughly half the M-10 troops armed with the 3-inch gun and half with 17-pounders so I am guessing the same probably happened with the 86th. I know some Quads made it into Normandy as one of his mates was trapped in a Quad suffering from seasickness during the rough crossing while another mate's Quad was destroyed by an 88mm solid shot. When the Crusaders arrived drivers from the Royal Armoured Corps were seconded to them to show them how to drive them. He loved the Crusader and was very fond of its turn of speed. While officially listed at 27mph he said that the fitters had 'monkeyed with the governors on the engines' and they could get 55mph out of them on a flat road.
Hi Warspite, Thanks for the post! What you wrote about the M10 17-pounders make sense - they were in short supply so it is not entirely surprising that some units were only able to replace half their M10s. I believe Corps anti-tank units like the 86th were assigned the highest priority for these, since as a Corps reserve they could be allocated wherever they were most needed. My research has found that, at least with the Archer, the name was in limited use at higher levels, but the name wasn't propogated to units, so all the war diaries refer to it as Valentine SP 17-pounder or a variation on that.
Thank you. That would tend to confirm what I had heard about the M-10's naming. I recall my late father said that the M-10 crews went in fear of air burst shells or hand grenades as the turret was open-topped and therefore vulnerable. He also said that one driver returned three different times with the entire three-man turret crew dead - twice from air bursts and once from a direct hit from an armour-piercing round. When he was placed with a fourth crew the newcomers declared him a 'Jonah' (bad luck) and refused point-blank to go out with him. He was eventually transferred. I have seen a few photos of U.S. M-10s where a crude armoured roof was extemporised from German armour plating.
British units in the field also created roofs... well I guess this is the direction this thread is going Hope the following is of interest! Chris This was from a separate set of pictures:
