81 Assault Squadron

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Chris L 1948, May 13, 2017.

  1. Chris L 1948

    Chris L 1948 Member

    Hi Andy, Just to let you know DVD arrived OK and have downloaded the files OK.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Cheers,
    Chris.
     
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  2. Chris,
    Do you mean that you know which LCT he was in on D Day? If so, please tell us which one, and what brought you to this conclusion.
    Do you know for a fact whether he was in command of a tank of simply a crew member? His rank of Lance Serjeant is not a sufficient indication by itself.
    Thanks in advance,
    Michel
     
  3. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    The fighting around Tilly was extremely vicious. The 12th SS murdered 26 Canadian prisoners of the Regina Rifles and two Durham Light Infantrymen from 151st Brigade of 50th Division at Chateau d'Audrieu just east of Tilly. At least one Crocodile flame tank crew of 141st RAC and a crew from 4/7th DG were also murdered in the same area after capture, so Sgt. Delf's story could well be true.
     
  4. Chris L 1948

    Chris L 1948 Member

    Michel, Thanks for your comments.
    No I don't know which LCT Alfred was on, the war diaries and other sources confirm that 6 LCTs were involved in moving his unit to Gold Beach, and that's as far as I have got.
    You also indicated that there is no certainty that he was in the first wave, or was in command of an AVRE (and you have a list of the vehicle commanders). This is true, my understanding is based on what the family have told me (but that's hearsay).
    I am pretty certain that he was involved in the battle at Tilly on June 11th, as casualty records reported that he was missing and then injured/captured and the war diaries report one AVRE was destroyed by German action on the 11th. Also if the family recall is correct the other 5 members of the crew (buried in Tilly cemetery) were shot by the Germans (SS Hitler Jeugend ?) but again that's hearsay as I can't trace any formal record of that incident.
    What I think we can say is that the ranks of the other 5 men buried at Tilly would seem to indicate that he was the most senior, so perhaps he had been drafted in as a replacement and was not in the first wave ?.
    Thanks again for your help.
    Chris.
     
  5. Chris L 1948

    Chris L 1948 Member

    Hi TTH,

    Thanks for the post. I've read the account of the murder of the Canadians and as I recall some Brits. The Chateau is only a few miles from Tilly, and we know that the SS Hitler Jeugend were in the area, so circumstantial as it is there may be some truth in the family story.
    That said so far I haven't traced any formal record of this and wondered if the subsequent war crimes trial of the senior officers was a sample exercise.

    Cheers,
    Chris.
     
  6. Chris,
    Thank you for your response. I'm not questioning what the family told you, just trying to separate facts from deductions. I tend to agree with your earlier statement that you believe he was in command of an AVRE in the first wave for the following reasons:
    The War Diary mentions no reinforcements between D Day and 11 Jun, so if Lsjt DELF was at Tilly on the 11th he must have landed on D Day.
    If he was in command of an AVRE on 11 Jun, he might either have already commanded (probably) the same tank on D Day, or have been transferred from either another AVRE. His coming from another position/vehicle is unlikely, because the non-AVRE vehicles which landed on D Day (on thus before 11 Jun) were:
    - one ARV (normally with 5 men)
    - two Jeeps (normally with 4 men)
    - two 3 ton 4x4 GS (normally with 6 men)
    as planned in the landing table and confirmed by the War Diary, which seems to indicate that no spare crew was to land on D Day.
    Furthermore, the War Diary mentions 4 AVRE casualties as of 1600 hrs 6 Jun (and none until 11 Jun), whose commanders are all identified, and are not Lsjt DELF, which means that he did not command an AVRE lost on D Day to be transferred to another on/before 11 Jun.
    All the above strongly suggest that he was indeed in command of an AVRE on D Day, as you presumed.

    If so, he must have been in one of the only three AVsRE whose commanders are not named in the Reports or War Diary:
    AVRE Bobbin and AVRE Fascine - both on LCT 2412 to KING GREEN
    AVRE Fascine - LCT 2424 to KING RED

    Michel
     
  7. Chris L 1948

    Chris L 1948 Member

    Michel,

    Many thanks for your reply, given I'm new to WWII material that helps me a lot.

    Thanks to Andy I now have a copy of the war diaries, and am working my way through them and transcribing the entries of interest for the narrative I am writing, that my friend will give to Albert's Great Grand Children.

    However, you mention that there are other reports and I guess lists of who was command each vehicle etc. and would be grateful if you would point me to where these are, as for interest's sake I'd like to read them. From the war diaries I have assembled an "organisation chart" of the named officers and this would help me flesh that out.

    Can I also "tap you brain" and ask if the maps the guys used, and which the diaries mention as location Grid references are published anywhere ?

    Once again many thanks,
    Chris.
     
  8. Col 1954

    Col 1954 New Member

     
  9. Col 1954

    Col 1954 New Member

    Hi all,
    Like Chris L I am a very new member of this forum and so apologise in advance if I am going about this in the wrong way.
    I have been following this thread with great interest because immediately after signing on I saw the references the 81st Assault Squadron RE.
    After many years of dithering about researching my late fathers (Sapper Leslie William Atkin) war record I have decided that now is the time to take things further.
    Putting together scraps of what he told me many years ago and and things that I have since read online and in various publications I know that he was the petard loader/hull gunner in the AVRE pusher commanded by (acting?) Captain Denis Aubrey King which disembarked from LCT 2412 at King Green Lane 1 in the first wave. He witnessed a couple of the things that have been mentioned - the drowning of one AVRE as it left the ramp and the complete destruction of another when it was hit by that 88.
    I have also seen a photo of a discarded petard round on Gold and from what he told me it may even be the one
    that he had to jettison after it misfired.
    After leaving the beach and crossing the lateral road the rally point for the AVREs was a disused quarry just outside Ver Sur Mer. What I need to know now is how to research where he went next.
    Any assistance would be appreciated.

    Many thanks
    Colin A.
     
  10. Chris L 1948

    Chris L 1948 Member

    Hi Colin,

    I have recently got hold of a copy of the War Diaries for 81st for 1944, and am working my way through them. As you will see from earlier posts got them via Andy ("Drew 5233") and perhaps he can supply you with a copy. Regrettably they don't tend to mention specific non commissioned ranks by name so it's difficult to track an individual. The guy I'm interested in was captured shortly after D Day and sent to a German POW camp, so was only involved directly with the 81st for a few days after the landing.

    For my part I've got hold of a number of books on the general subject of the Normandy invasion and have found these useful as background, particularly those mentioned in this thread and also Beevor's "D-Day" and Kurt Meyers book "Grenadiers" which in the early section records the Normandy battle from the German side.

    I've found all the other guys who you will see have contributed to this thread really helpful and they have far more experience than I do, so I'm sure having seen your post you'll get lots of help. However, if there is a specific question you have drop me a note and I'll help if I can.

    Cheers,
    Chris.
     
  11. Tiflo 62

    Tiflo 62 Member

    Hello,

    Does someone get the WD of September 44 for this unit ?

    Thank you in advance.
    Florent.
     
  12. Chris L 1948

    Chris L 1948 Member

    Hello Florent,

    I have a copy of the WD for 1944, as kindly provided by Andy.

    If you let me know your specific question I'll try to answer.

    Chris.
     
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