African American soldiers based in UK during WW2

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by gtwomey, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    And to get back on thread
     

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  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  3. dumbo

    dumbo Junior Member

    The official line is that the US fighting army was generaly white, but I recall a folk-tale from way back when, that when the white Americans arrived, the house-wives of Ulster, Lancashire, Wapping, said "YOu can't be American , becauze You ain't black". The rumor is that the Yanks were so far themselves that the first troops sent were black...if they died in a successful Nazi invasion of the UK, none of the US Establishment would very much mind. They could make their peace, and hit on the USSR and the Japs; picking up the remains of the British Empire as it expired. This is Not part of the official list of US troop movemets to Airstrip One, but you might do worse than check it out.
     
  4. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    What a load of crap.
     
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    AMERICAN TROOPS IN NORTHERN IRELAND - British Pathe

    Commentator notes it is only seven weeks since the United States of America declared war on Germany.

    ...

    Cataloguer's note: according to commentary this was the first contingent of American troops to land on British soil during the war. It must have been some culture shock for these young lads from the Midwest arriving in Northern Ireland on a dreary January day (and eating pork pies).
     
  6. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    GTwomey - interesting stuff -part of my research for a book involves black soldiers in the British army in WW2 - now that is difficult as there was no policy of segregation and estimates of the black population in the UK in 1939 vary but don't go above about 50,000. 'Some needle, some haystack', as someone wittier than me once said.

    You might do worse than have a look at the Burtonwood Heritage Centre in Warrington, Cheshire. I teach on a university campus in Warrington and several of my students regularly liaise with the good people there. Many black servicemen spent time at Burtonwood and there are many local memories of black soldiers. My own mum, dead for a few years now, remembers when she was a teenage girl growing up and working in Liverpool, black soldiers disembarking and being led by bands or bugle players and she insists, dancing up the streets - could be newsreel memories. but she also remembered trying to get on the train to Warrington from Liverpool to get to dance with the black soldiers as they could jive and she was totally blown away by that, being a keen dancer. Her dad objected, often violently and she would hide her skirt and petticoat in her bag and tell him she was working lates (she was a police telephonist later in the war), but really she was off to Warrington. Sadly she never made it as the police would regularly turn people off the train and send them back - she probably looked very young (she'd have been 15/16).

    Mixed race liaisons and marriages were common in Warrington and while it's not the most popular memory, there are people around who recall black servicemen very well - and with some degree of fondness. My dad, a soldier in the Royal Engineers, used to complain that white southern Yanks treated black soldiers like dirt while British civilians and soldiers were tolerant and generally friendly - there are documented instances of white servicemen being prosecuted for breaking up mixed race couples on the street in the north west, even when the black man was British.
     
  7. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Hello Brian,

    I don't have any information on black Americans dancing while they marched during WWII, but I thought I'd share a bit of info on marching/dancing by HBCU bands in the US.

    HBCU stands for Historically Black College and Universities.

    Historically black colleges and universities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I'm not well versed on their origins but I believe most were founded after the civil war during times of legal segregation (and social discrimination) but some may have been pre-civil war for free blacks.

    All people are free to enroll in them now but they are still predominately and traditionally African-American.

    Point of this little ramble into American history is that their marching bands are known for very intricate and fast paced dance routines during their marching performances, especially by their drum majors. I wouldn't doubt what you mother said she saw, black American soldiers dancing as they marched.

    Here is a typical HBCU marching band performance, current day, of course. :)

    Halftime Spectacles: Jackson State Marching Band - YouTube
     
  8. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Thanks for that Dave 55 - nice to think she got that right as it was a fond memory.
     
  9. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I thought I saw two whites playing the tuba in that video :)

    And if not on a military theme, in a similar mood this is what I call the way to go!
     
  10. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Miguel

    Wonderful !!!!!

    Indeed, what a way to go !!!!!!!!

    Ron
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  12. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

    Harry Belafonte was at RAF Millom
     
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  13. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    I was staying in a village just west of Weymouth, Dorset during 2 and 3 June 1944. American troops were passing in their vehicles all day, as they made their way to embarkation. Many of these troops were black and, we now know, they were among those who lost their lives at Omaha Beach.
    Roy
     
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  14. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    Actually Harry Belafonte was in the US Navy during WW2.

    Harry Belafonte - Wikipedia

    See the paragraph titled "Early Life" in particular.
     
  15. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Let's expand on that a bit ... maybe acknowledge some of the harsh realities
    Screen Shot 2017-05-23 at 04.52.34.png
    Screen Shot 2017-05-23 at 04.41.37.png
    Voices of the Left Behind


    "Contrary to popular belief, the rise in illegitimacy did not necessarily reflect any significant change in the norms relating to sexual behaviour."
    Screen Shot 2017-05-23 at 04.41.19.png
    https://www.york.ac.uk/media/spsw/d...1_IllegitimacyPhenomenonOfEnglandAndWales.pdf
     
    canuck likes this.
  17. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    On a slightly different slant, I went through the Battlefield Historian colour photos of the embarkation at Weymouth - NOT a black face to be seen. So they were obviously not invited to be there when the pictures were taken!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  18. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

    Sorry gave Duff Info, It was Cy Grant who was in RAF and stationed at RAF MIllom
     
  19. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    No problem, I didn't know either until I looked it up myself. Learn something new every day!
     
  20. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    For a fictional view, Small Island by Andrea Levy gives an entertaining account of the differences between the attitude of the english and the americans to the presence of black americans in their country.
    For us, they were mostly the same as white americans - they had all come to help us. For which everyone was grateful - we and the rest of Europe were in serious trouble by then.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017

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