I am researching the war dead on Tetsworth War Memorial, Oxfordshire. One is Jim Rymills who died on 30th September 1944 and is buried in Cesena cemetery. He was in 7th Ox and Bucks Light Infantry which had served as part of 56th London Division in the fighting for Gemmano. However around 22nd September the battalion was put in suspended animation and whilst a cadre remained, drafts were sent to Queens Brigade (2/5th, 2/6th and 2/7th Queens of 169th Infantry Brigade). Hence it is likely he was one of them and he died whilst serving with the Queens. Can anyone help with this hypothesis? Interestingly the CWGC Graves Concentration Document shows a number from the Queens who died at that time and it also gives the initial burial location as 1CGR/EJS/2398 Sh3 . Does that map reference mean anything to anyone better versed in the Italian Campaign? His regimental number is 5389934 - does that give a clue as to when he joined up? Many thanks for any help - however small!!
Hello Skoyen89, The important bit of the CWGC jargon is the map reference 2398. Unfortunately it is only a four figure and not a six figure reference so even when the co-ordinates are read they won't be very accurate. I put 2398 into the Echodelta Map Reference conversion website www.echodelta.net and came up with a settlement called Villaggio Monte Busca which is to the west of Rocca San Casciano. (Select Northern Italy from the drop down menu, then click on the link to obtain the two figure reference - I think if its WR - and insert WR2398 in the appropriate box. A 'Google' map comes up which you can enlarge to see the exact location.) I suggest you get hold of a copy of the war diary for 169th Infantry Brigade for 30 September 1944 because the chances are that this was a temporary cemetery on/near the battlefield. Alternatively, if you contact the Commonwealth War Graves Commission using the Contact Form on their website they will tell you the name of the place from where the bodies were collected or 'concentrated'. Regards, Vitelliino
Hi Drew Thanks for the copies which seem to confirm my hypothesis. Pity there are no lists of who went where. I will try the Queens War Diaries in Kew when I next get there. Hi Vitelino Thanks for the advice and the go at pinning it down. I am away at the moment but will try to work on it next week as you suggest. One of the ways I have found to do it in the past is to find a copy of the WWII maps used on the web or buy one on EBay. This has proved useful with my India and Burma research and there is a site of an institute or university in the USA who has lots of maps loaded on the web. All the best Tony
Hi Visited Kew yesterday and tried 7 OBLI and 169th Brigade War Diaries but they did not add much. I then started on the Queens War Diaries with 2/7th Queens and hey presto.... Luckily the 2/7 Queens war diary was the first of the three I had pulled and they kept really detailed accounts, daily orders etc Jim Rymills was transferred to them and there is a note of his death on 30th Sept 1944 in daily orders. 2/7 Queens were fighting in Savignano that day and his Company sent a couple of patrols into the town. The map refs look different to the CWGC one above eg the War Diary gives the bridge in Savignano as 717015
I went back to the CWGC site and pulled an Excel download of all those buried in Cesena and looked for those in 7 OBLI or 2/7 Queens killed on or around end September 1944. As an aside, most of the Queens casualties at that time seemed to come from 2/6 Queens. Then I looked for the concentration reports of those who may have been in the same actions as Rymills. What I realised was that the map reference I gave, and Vitelino was searching for, in the Grave Concentration Report above was the 'to' place (so probably Cesena Cemetery) and what I had to find was the first of a series of sheets to get the 'from' location where they were originally buried. Eventually found it - 169 Bde Mil Cem(ty) Santarchangelo on map 1/50,000 Sh100 11 759985 I couldn't find a map in the War Diaries at Kew for this so I will need to try elsewhere, but did manage to find one of Rimini and also one that covered Gemmano.
