4684426 F. WOOD - dog tag - Canadian?

Whilst investigating the site of a former army camp yesterday, I had a lucky find in what appears to be a dog tag.

It's a 3cm diameter aluminium disc and seemingly home-made judging by the quality.

It reads: "4684426 F WOOD C.of.E" - I've checked the CWGC database with no luck - does anyone have any ideas where I might go from here? I'd really love to ID his unit, but the diaries of the units that I know were in this camp don't include muster rolls.

The camp was built in 1942 by the Canadians and was occupied well into 1943 by a few Cdn regts, so he's more likely to be Cdn than British although I can't rule the latter out.

Also, any ideas on the tag itself - did he perhaps have it made as an insurance policy against the official fibreboard identity discs getting lost/damaged, or is it just to attach to his property? I know that respirators had to be marked with an identity disc - I own a few that have these, but they only have name/no, not the religion. Did the Canadians actually use the term 'Church of England' at all?

Any thoughts appreciated!

- Pete

 

The number fits with The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry if that helps?

4,680,001 to 4,736,000

 

The number looks high for a Canadian, also it would have a letter before it?

 

Peter,

I believe you are correct. From looking at Citations I think only the British Army had just numbers and the Commonwealth had a letter(s) first.

Cheers
Andy

 

Have double checked CWGC, no one looks likely - if he was KOYLI then had the good fortune to survive the war.

Looks like a challenge if ever I saw one!

Pete

 

Is it definitely an F, could it be a P?

The person stamping it used the same O on Wood and C.Of.E , but the vertical section on the initial is not the same stamp as the F in C.oF.E - I do suspect a P...

Pete

 

Hi guys,

thanks so much for this - just the sort of expert knowledge I was hoping to tap into!

So it seems that it's a British number and KOYLI - I have no record of them in East Sussex 1940-43, so 1944 is a possibility.

A quick search of WO 166 shows diaries of 1, 1/4, 2/4, 6, 7, 8, 30 and 70 Bns KOYLI in Home Forces. I've just checked the Overlord Movement Timetable for Newhaven and 1/4 KOYLI were scheduled for Gold Beach on the afternoon of D+3 - scheduled to arrive in the marshalling area on D-1 but this appears at this time to assume that D-Day was going to be June 5.

Did the June 5 postponement cause a log-jam, ending up in the camp I'm investigating suddenly having to house troops? The last column of the table simply says "Lowestoft", so I presume the Bn was moved from there to Newhaven area. (The camp's 10-15 miles from Newhaven.) There's a diary in WO 171 which I shall be investigating this Thursday...

The initial on the dog tag is an 'F' - I did first think it was a 'P', but the close-up photo confirms 'F'. The different font faces perhaps indicate that somebody had a mish-mash set of stamps and stamped the whole disc in one go rather than one line at a time.

I will have a look at the 1/4 KOYLI diary and post the results.

- Pete

 

For what it's worth, the font (well, the number font and a couple of the letters anyway) and stamping style is of the standard British Army issue '1/8in stamp set for steel' of the WW1 period and on (that particular font dating from 1907 onwards).

Though, obviously, an unofficial tag, the style of stamping is as per regulations of 1920 (though the 'of' in 'C of E' is contrary) and the number dates it to not a great deal of years after that date (the 4,425th serving member of the KOYLI (whole regiment - regulars, territorials, etc) after 1921). As a guess, it would seem to indicate a 1920's (or early 1930s) enlistment. Similarly numbered men still serving in WW2 all seem to be aged in their mid to late 30s in the early years of the war, thereby probably confirming this theory.

Dave

 

I`ve had a look in `Prisoners of War British Army 39-45` no luck there Sorry...but there is a Cpl T H Wood KOYLI Number 4688405 (stalag 18A)...very close but no cigar! He may have been a PoW and repatriated ? Perhaps Brian has a view?...Then again he could have been commisioned and given a new number keeping his old tag as a souvenier..Speculation only I`m afraid ..Sorry.

 

Was this a camp newly constructed in 1941, this would rule out a pre-war territorial camp at the same place.

Agree the close up is an F, think croonaerts info makes sense regards dating it.

 

This chap was 1/4 and gives some info on a transit camp - ring any bells?

The Second World War Experience Centre - British Army Cpl Geoff Steer 1/4th KOYLI

 

Original enlistment may have been KOYLI but who knows where/who he may have served with after his enlistment,he could have been posted as a replacement to another unit?.

Verrieres

 

Too many possibilities to list. He may not have even served in WW2. One thing's certain though...no-one of that number died whilst serving (or because of service) during WW2.

Dave

 

For what it's worth, the font (well, the number font and a couple of the letters anyway) and stamping style is of the standard British Army issue '1/8in stamp set for steel' of the WW1 period and on (that particular font dating from 1907 onwards).

Though, obviously, an unofficial tag, the style of stamping is as per regulations of 1920 (though the 'of' in 'C of E' is contrary) and the number dates it to not a great deal of years after that date (the 4,425th serving member of the KOYLI (whole regiment - regulars, territorials, etc) after 1921). As a guess, it would seem to indicate a 1920's (or early 1930s) enlistment. Similarly numbered men still serving in WW2 all seem to be aged in their mid to late 30s in the early years of the war, thereby probably confirming this theory.

Dave


Thanks Dave - very interesting! Sounds as though he could have been an old sweat then.

- Pete

 

Was this a camp newly constructed in 1941, this would rule out a pre-war territorial camp at the same place.

Agree the close up is an F, think croonaerts info makes sense regards dating it.

This chap was 1/4 and gives some info on a transit camp - ring any bells?

The Second World War Experience Centre - British Army Cpl Geoff Steer 1/4th KOYLI

The link states "The marshalling area was behind a Polish fighter aerodrome in a wood, under canvas."

The camp I'm looking at was indeed in a wood, and the troops were under canvas. As for an aerodrome, there were at least two Advanced Landing Grounds in East Suseex, both seemingly with Polish squadrons; the nearest one is over 4 miles away, but it might be that aerial activity gave the impression that it was closer. Hopefully the KOYLI diary at TNA will give the location...

The camp itself was not pre-war that I know of; the Cdn Engineers seem to begin on hutting in April 1942 (one hut still stands, and concrete bases of latrine blocks still exist under the leaves), with an infantry bn moving in and erecting tents on the 19th. A Cdn Field Regt was in residence a year later and they seem to have really developed the camp, clearing a parade square and laying hardcore roads. I found the tag in the general area of what I think was the parade ground.

I have no info of occupants beyond Aug 43, but it's simply a matter of my plodding down through the orbat of Cdn Corps until I fill in the gaps; if the KOYLI link is proved then it'll be great to have an Overlord connection!

- Pete

 

I`ve had a look in `Prisoners of War British Army 39-45` no luck there Sorry...but there is a Cpl T H Wood KOYLI Number 4688405 (stalag 18A)...very close but no cigar! He may have been a PoW and repatriated ? Perhaps Brian has a view?...Then again he could have been commisioned and given a new number keeping his old tag as a souvenier..Speculation only I`m afraid ..Sorry.

Thanks for trying!


Original enlistment may have been KOYLI but who knows where/who he may have served with after his enlistment,he could have been posted as a replacement to another unit?.

Verrieres

Too many possibilities to list. He may not have even served in WW2. One thing's certain though...no-one of that number died whilst serving (or because of service) during WW2.

Dave

The possibility of transfer to another unit is frightening...

- Pete

 

The link states "The marshalling area was behind a Polish fighter aerodrome in a wood, under canvas."

The camp I'm looking at was indeed in a wood, and the troops were under canvas. As for an aerodrome, there were at least two Advanced Landing Grounds in East Suseex, both seemingly with Polish squadrons; the nearest one is over 4 miles away, but it might be that aerial activity gave the impression that it was closer. Hopefully the KOYLI diary at TNA will give the location...

The camp itself was not pre-war that I know of; the Cdn Engineers seem to begin on hutting in April 1942 (one hut still stands, and concrete bases of latrine blocks still exist under the leaves), with an infantry bn moving in and erecting tents on the 19th. A Cdn Field Regt was in residence a year later and they seem to have really developed the camp, clearing a parade square and laying hardcore roads. I found the tag in the general area of what I think was the parade ground.

I have no info of occupants beyond Aug 43, but it's simply a matter of my plodding down through the orbat of Cdn Corps until I fill in the gaps; if the KOYLI link is proved then it'll be great to have an Overlord connection!

- Pete


By way of a (delayed) update, I've had a look at 1/4KOYLI diary for 1944 and they were not at the camp where I found the dog tag. The camp they were at was at Chailey, which was where one of the Advanced Landing Grounds was operated by the Polish. I also checked 6 KOYLI 1943 and they were nowhere near.

However, having done some digging in my records, I see that 2/4 KOYLI were in 46 Div that were holding the Rye/Camber area of East Sussex in 1942. On Aug 7 1942, the Canadians left 'my' camp site and don't mention the advance party of any relief unit taking over. It appears that 2/4 KOYLI might have taken part in a Brigade live-firing exercise on the Downs near Lewes lasting 2-3 days about 3 weeks after the camp was vacated. With an entire Brigade knocking around and all the billets already occupied, it may just be possible the KOYLI bivouacked in the woods which may still have been empty at this time...

- Pete