Army Cooks

Hi all, I'm trying to understand how the Army cooks were organised in the field. I believe they were part of the RASC, and in 1941 became the Army Catering Corps. But how were they organised, and to what sized unit were they attached to. How many might be with an Infantry battalion of 800-1000 men, or a brigade. How was the food distributed to them, and how often. Could they incorporate local produce, or livestock killed by bomb or shell? What equipment did they have, how many trucks might they need, you get my drift.

Any help would be much appreciated

 

I'm not sure but I don't think they were RASC (although field bakeries and butchery units were from memory), I think units had their own cooks who were members of the Battalion or whatever itself and when the ACC was setup a lot of them were "rebadged" but stayed with the same unit - I'm just basing this on what I've seen in Soldiers Service Books and record cards where men are shown as moving to the ACC but seem to stay with the same unit. Hopefully those with knowledge not just guesswork will come along soon

 

The numbers of cooks were part of the war establishments for every type of unit.

The notes, 2nd edition, to the first four volumes of the war establishments (then the Field Force - Army Council Instructions [A.C.Is.] of 21.09.1938), read in No. 9: "[Batmen and] cooks with fighting troops are fully armed and trained soldiers, and are available for ordinary duties in the ranks. ..."

Before the introduction of the A.C.C., cooks were unit personnel, not attached R.A.S.C. personnel.


Examples for Infantry Battalions:
- II/12 F/1 - Infantry Batallion (Higher Establishment) (A.C.I. 10.04.1940, effective until 15.09.1942):
10 cooks (includes 1 corporal) in No. 6 platoon of headquarters company
- II/12 F/2 - Infantry Batallion (Higher Establishment) (A.C.I. 04.06.1941, effective until 15.09.1942 - with a caveat, existing side by side with the above issue 1):
now A.C.C. personnel attached to No. 6 platoon of headquarters company:
2 serjeant cooks
1 cook for officers' mess
10 cooks for other ranks (includes 1 corporal)

II/12 F/2 was renumbered to II/233/1, effective from 15.09.1942 until 30.04.1943 (obviously with the same numbers though amendments might have changed details).
Superseded by II/233/2, effective until 12.11.1944:
(2 more privates for other ranks' mess, all cooks now in administrative platoon of headquarters company)
superseded by II/233/3, effective until 16.02.1949:
unchanged.

There were more war establishments for infantry battalions for different theatres or purposes, in doubt having priority to the above mentioned.


Formation of the Army Catering Corps (A.C.C.):
A.C.I. 469 of 1941, 05.04.1941:
"1. The Formation of the Army Catering Corps was authorized by Army Order 35 of 1941, with effect from 22.03.1941.
...
4. Apart from cookery schools and cookery training centres, there will be no "units" of the Army Catering Corps. ..."


Cook was normally a non-tradesman qualification, but there were also tradesman qualifications (Army class personnel with not less than three years' civil, or combined civil and military, cooking experience).

Several more A.C.Is. dealt with cooks and the Army Catering Corps, some dealing with the scale of cooks, e.g.:
- 553 of 1939 - Peace Establishments of Cooks - Regular Army - Home
- 133 of 1940 - Scale of Cooks for Rank and File Messes to be applied to War Establishments and other Establishments at Home and Abroad (excluding India and Burma)
- 913 of 1941 - Cooks in War Establishments
- 1648 of 1941 - Corporal Cooks
- 2391 of 1941- Abolition of Lance Appointments for Cooks (Tradesmen and Non-tradesmen)
- 1222 of 1942 - Scales of Cooks and Mess Orderlies for Messes in Military Units Staffed wholly by Soldiers or Male Civilians
- 112 of 1944 - Establishments - Scale of Cooks and Mess Orderlies for Messes in Military Units Staffed wholly by Soldiers or Male Civilians

Edit: typo

 

Thank you Aixman, that is most helpful.

 

I've also found this old post, which gives great detail on WW2 Army rations, British and Commonwealth, as well as American and Japanese., see links
British WWII Rations Army Catering Corps

 

Army cooks don't seem to go out of their way to be popular.

Armoured Car hits landmine. Crew ok sent to MO who recommends an afternoon rest and a mug of hot sweet tea.
Driver and Gunner go to cookhouse with blackened faces but clean where their goggles were worn.
Corporal Cook "Are you the two blown up by a mine?" "Yes we've been sent for a mug of tea and a rest".
Corporal Cook "Tea is at 5 o'clock **** off."

Queuing for food in O/R's Mess not impressed with servings. Who called the Cook a ****?
Who called the ***** a Cook!

British Army reaction to local food.


Being a Cook in the field had its dangers.

Senio Valley Italy October 1944
Private Burden, a Cook, was killed when he, along with two others, dived from the cookhouse into a trench to be followed by a shell which killed him and seriously wounded the others.
Initially buried in Palazzuolo, he lies in Faenza War Cemetery.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2237034/william-henry-burden/

 

Just to add that in the Canadian Army, their cooks were RCASC personnel throughout, never being formed into a separate Corps.

I suspect somewhere there was a formula for the number of cooks required per head of personnel to be fed but I haven't happened across it anywhere.

Gary

 

Gary,

the above mentioned
- 133 of 1940 - Scale of Cooks for Rank and File Messes to be applied to War Establishments and other Establishments at Home and Abroad (excluding India and Burma),
- 1222 of 1942 - Scales of Cooks and Mess Orderlies for Messes in Military Units Staffed wholly by Soldiers or Male Civilians,
- 112 of 1944 - Establishments - Scale of Cooks and Mess Orderlies for Messes in Military Units Staffed wholly by Soldiers or Male Civilians
give a scale, but I understand those tables as rules for the War Establishment officials who put them specifically into respective practice. So, the war establishments represent the priority rule.


Thanks for the RCASC hint; I knew (only) there was no ACC in Canada, but RCASC seemed likely.

Wolfgang

 

Oops posted twice!

 

What A great find!

 

Thanks for the input on this thread.

I'm looking for info on how ACC Cooks work alongside Artillery Batteries. My Grandad was attached to an Artillery Battery as ACC, but I really have no logistical or proximity concept of how this worked in the field. I have many questions.

For instance:

• How close by in proximity would a field cookhouse be to a gun placement?
• If an Artillery Regiment is made up of a regimental HQ, three Batteries - each with eight 25 pound guns, divided into 2 troops (4 guns each), divided again into 2 sections (2 guns each) - how many cooks to a Battery? And how many gunners and officers? Cooks/gunners/officers ratio, etc.?

These are the kinds of questions that I have, trying to understand the daily life of the ACC.

I'd be very grateful for any insight contributors may have. Thank you again.

 

Also, can anyone confirm whether WW2 ACC army cooks had to wear Chefs Whites or something else in the field?

 

Army Council Instruction (A.C.I.) 158 of 1939, 22.03.1939, - Clothing for Cooks and Butchers employed with Units -
mentions for cooks on the unit establishment (as opposed to cook-houses):
3 Aprons, butchers,
3 Caps, butchers,
3 Smocks, butchers,
for every military or civilian cook on the unit establishment.

No colours mentioned.

 

"How close by in proximity would a field cookhouse be to a gun placement"

25 pounder Field Guns had maximum a range of 7 miles well within range of the enemy Medium Artillery and heavy mortars.
The cookhouse was within the Battery Command Post area, so that the gun crews could be fed in turn while in action.

266 Bty in the Senio Valley October 1944 during the battle for Monte Cece

The Regiment was the furthest forward Field Regt and subject of much enemy activity.
Gnr Hyde was awarded a Military Medal for his actions during the bombardments and for saving Sgt Thompsons life.
Sgt Welch was seriously was seriously wounded in the lungs and Private Burden a cook was killed when he, along with two others, dived from the cookhouse into a trench to be followed by a shell, which killed him and seriously wounded the others.

Private Burden lies in Faenza War Cemetery

Note : Listed as ACC attached Royal Artillery by CWGC


Mennell Family Collection

 

Hi Freedom, a very good question, and one I suspect only a practicing Army cook could tell us.

However, I would suggest the below points, and let someone put me right, if I err.

How the cooks operated was very dependant on how the Artillery Regiment and Battery were deployed at the time. And lets assume the battery is not operating independently which will only add to our problems of understanding how things worked. I believe they worked in the Echelon B area, along with other supporting units. But there was a requirement to get at least one hot meal a day into the stomach of every soldier they cooked for, so distance in time to travel to these men was a consideration. Of course they could operate within enemy artillery range, if, as they did for much of the later war, the Allies had air superiority, and hence little successful Axis air observation was conducted, and what was would be keyed on identifying gun position.

As you mentioned in your other post, hygiene would be a concern, and practicalities of where to set up. A nice building located in a village with several houses that might be used to cook and store food, along with accommodation for our cooks, would be far more preferable that a tent in a muddy field. And number wise, looking at the info Aixman provided, which is 10 cooks to an infantry battalion, an artillery regiment, which I think is a couple of hundred men less, might have 7-8 cooks. They should also be receiving a steady supply of food via RASC deliveries, from Division, Corps, Army, depending on the size of the force they are with.

So that's a nice and stable set up, orderly and regular, but of course things get more difficult in a war of movement, whether advancing, retreating, or simply redeploying. Now providing that hot meal becomes difficult, and the men may be living off field rations, with just tea (this is the British Army we're talking about, but substitute coffee for the Americans I guess) and fresh sandwiches being all the cookhouse might provide. And in these circumstances, along with some independent battery operations, the cooks would be exposed to far greater dangers. Certainly in the days of the BEF retreat to Dunkirk, numerous times in North Africa, and the fighting in Burma, found cooks in places far hotter than the kitchen.

 

Easy question - difficult answers when trying to be exact, as numbers depend on several parameters. As an example, the divisional standard field regiment II/190 B/1 - A Regiment, R.H.A., or a Field Regiment, R.A., - effective 22.12.1943 - 05.04.1945, had:
6 cooks in a battery of 204 total (all in battery headquarters),
5 cooks in the regimental headquarters of 61 total, so
23 cooks in 673 total.

Of these 23 cooks, 1 in each battery and in the regimental headquarters were provided for the officers' mess, and each battery had 1 corporal cook for the other ranks' mess.

 

Field Kitchen in the mountains 1944.


Mennell Family Collection
Note the tannoy speaker bottom left, standing on the roll of telephone wire,
to give orders from the Command Post to the guns crew.

 

A Soldiers Lot
Most people see soldiers in their peacetime roll, on parade wearing smart uniforms but a soldier in combat has a completely opposite set of values.
Their key roll is not to be seen, to blend in with the background and use the surroundings to prevent them being injured or killed.
They live in areas where the population is either hidden or has gone, where there is no heat or light and has to cope with whatever climate
they are faced with. There is also the constant fear of death or injury.
The men in the 67th left home in 1943.
From that point until they retuned home, they rarely lived in a building that was not a ruin, whatever the weather, they were living under canvas, or holes in the ground.

Shepherd Family Collection

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Mennell Family Collection

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Mennell Family Collection
After 1941 the Regiment consisted of three Batteries of eight guns. Each Battery was split into two Troops
of four guns which then split to two sections of two guns, finally each gun crew was a sub section.
A Division could bring down fire from its three Regiments with 72 guns.

Field Regiment Organisation - The Royal Artillery 1939-45
There were also independent Artillery units called AGRA (Army Group
Royal Artillery) who would supplement the Divisional fire with Field,
Medium, or Heavy guns

 

I can see from the file name that's in Italy. Do you happen to know a tighter date? Or which gun (artillery) regiment the kitchen was for?

 

Freedom, regarding #17 Field Kitchen in the mountains.
The unit is the 67th Field Regiment RA TA the place, the entrance to the Apennines in the area of Casaglia.
September 1944.

Google Maps

The British 1st Infantry Division advance on foot over the mountain tops clearing the enemy on a broad front as they progressed.
Supplies were carried over the hills by mule.
The roads were poor and under direct observation by the enemy.
The villages were in ruins, roads blocked by landfalls created by enemy explosives and all bridges blown. The Regiment advanced in the valleys while the OP Parties accompanying the infantry took the high ground, mountain top by mountain top. Ronta, Razzuolo, Casaglia, Crespino del Lamone, Biforco and Marradi.