Bletchley and Nuremberg

Discussion in 'User Introductions' started by Parents at Bletchley, Mar 22, 2023.

  1. Hallo, my name is Di. I'm researching my parents Oliver Charles Berthoud and Celia Margaret Berthoud nèe Bevan, both of whom served at Bletchley Park. My father was an officer in the Intelligence Corps. He worked in Hut 3M Block D possibly from early 1942 and my mother served in Hut 4 Block B, Naval Section. She was a F. O. Civilian Temporary Junior Assistant Officer at least from March 1942 to December 1944. My father also was an Observer at the Nuremberg Trials.

    I've just received copies of my father's records from The Army Support Division Historical Disclosures and I'm very excited about what I was sent! I am trying to decipher what is written on the forms and what the abbreviations mean. So I may soon turn up with my queries on the various forums here, I'm looking forward to meeting up with some of you on this site!

    BTW, I sent in my application on March 24th 2021 and enquired about it six moths later, receiving the answer
    "As you will be aware, measures implemented to prevent the spread of Coronavirus have impacted the Department over the last 12-18 months and issues remain in completing the processes to provide responses to all requests. Whilst we will answer your request as quickly as possible, where priorities and resources allow, there remains the likelihood that some delays may occur." Today, March 22nd 2023 I received the documents, so my patience has been rewarded.
     
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  2. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello and welcome to the forum.
    Anything you're not sure about, just ask. We have some very knowledgeable members on here who will be only too happy to help if they can.

    Lesley
     
  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Di,

    Welcome aboard. Have you visited Bletchley Park (BP)? It is an amazing place; one of the few places I've been to that made you realise how small you are.

    Might be best to use this as your main thread. If other threads are needed cross-reference them here.

    Finally, you have started a long journey and this forum can normally help.
     
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  4. Hallo, Lesley and David,
    Thanks for ýour welcome! I've decided to look at the things I got sent gradually (as I don't always have lots of time, unfortunately!) in chronological order, and when I come up with a query, to ask it. I'm not sure about the technicalities of what David says here: "Might be best to use this as your main thread, if other threads are needed, cross-reference them here". How do I do this? Anyway, my first question is about Part IV of the form E531A. My father, a school teacher, enlisted on 14.08.1940 at the age of 29 and was sent to the C.M.P (Field Security Centre). The Certificate of Medical Examination places him in Grade III "Fit for sedentary service at home only." I would like to know what was actually examined? As far as I know my father was in good health , played cricket and went mountaineering, I would have thought he was fitter than Grade III?
     
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  5. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Welcome aboard Di, a fascinating journey indeed you are undertaking.

    A late welcome, sorry, but I’m slow, so no way they’d ever have had me at Bletchley! :D
     
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  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Welcome to the forum -

    This copy & paste text from another forum may explain army medical categories. The nature of the medical tests performed will be recorded in his fine but MOD don’t release medical records.


    The development of the British Army’s system of medical classification illustrates concepts that are very relevant to modern occupational health.

    In 1939, there was a mobilisation for war of the United Kingdom’s reserve forces. These soldiers were placed in a number of medical
    categories as follow:

    A – fit for general service at home and abroad,

    B – unfit for general service abroad but fit for base or garrison service at home and abroad,

    C – fit for home service only,

    D – unfit for any form of military service.

    The situation was complicated by the need to examine all civilian recruits, both volunteers and those called up to the Army. These examinations were performed by Civilian
    Medical Boards which classified recruits into four grades, the fourth being unfit for service.

    These grades only took account of the physical and medical condition of the recruit and made neither allowance for where the recruit was to be sent nor for their employment.

    Not surprisingly, there were complaints that recruits were physically incapable of performing their duties. What was needed was a system that translated the four grades given by the Civilian Medical Boards into something of use to the Army. This was critical because it was essential to ensure the economical use of manpower.

    In 1940, a system of categories was selected by the Army as follows:

    · A1, A2, B1, B2, B3, B4, B5:

    These seven categories were based on vision in relation to shooting and driving,physical endurance, the ability to march and the
    manifestation of any other disease which would affect military duty.

    The categories also had caveats which
    determined both task and location worldwide.
    · C: Home service only.
    · D: Temporarily unfit.
    · E: Permanently unfit.

    The Army allocated a soldier to one of these categories on the basis of the Civilian Medical Board grades. The linkage was complex and never worked well.

    The scale of the problem is worth noting. During the Second World War, it is calculated that the Civilian Medical Boards undertook over seven million examinations, taking
    more than three and a half million hours.

    The results of the examinations show that by the age of 37, only 44% were fit
    for their age and 20% were unfit for service.


    During the War, this classification system evolved but it was never entirely satisfactory. By 1945, there were some 72 sub-categories. The key problem was the failure by
    medical officers, when assessing physical capacity, todistinguish between the mere existence of defect and what
    result that defect had on functional ability.


    Various developments were introduced. These included the re-examination of recruits after one month in training and the re-examination of personnel who had been categorised as unfit for duty, before they were sent back to
    duty. Various geographical qualifications were also included to ensure that soldiers, who were basically fit but could not go to the tropics, were employed in their highest category.


    The unsatisfactory situation resulted in the adoption of a Canadian system, known as PULHEMS. The PULHEMS
    acronym stands for the following qualities:
    P – physical capacity, U – upper extremity, L – locomotion, H – hearing, E – eyesight, M – mental capacity, S – stability of emotions.

    For each quality, the soldier is given a number. From this, a PULHHEEMS profile, a series of numbers, is derived.

    Note that an extra H and an extra E have been introduced so that each ear and eye can be assessed separately. This profile is used to place soldiers in an appropriate employment
    by the use of PULHHEEMS Employment Standards which provide a linkage to the type of work carried out by each part of the Army and includes geographical restrictions.

    The following is a simplification of the current British Army’s PULHHEEMS System, which has developed over 50 years:

    P2 – fully fit, P3 – light duties, P3R – pregnant, P7 – limited duties, P8 – medically unfit, P0 – unfit, under medical care.

    The P quality for overall physical capacity is the dominant one. Recent developments have concluded that the geographical limitations were unnecessarily restrictive and more flexibility has been introduced.

    The history of the introduction and development of the PULHHEEMS System has been evolutionary. It has proved remarkably robust. Since the end of the Cold War and with the development of a more expeditionary army, there has been a need to simplify it. Again...”

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2023
  7. Andsco

    Andsco Well-Known Member

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  8. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Tony Comer, ex-GCHQ historian, has a website, with regular articles. It might explain better than reading a book what BP did: Sigint Historian
     
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  9. Thank you so much for drawing my attention to this! I know a bit about my father's time at BP but had few actual dates until now! In particular I did not know when he started and when he left there.
    I have only just discovered from the Form E531 that he was in the Territorial Army from 14/8/1940 until 29/5/1942 (1 yr, 289 days) and was then discharged under Para 390 (xvii)K.R.s 1940 (having been appointed to a commission).
    The next stage of his career appears to be covered in Para 10.
    I wonder if anyone can decipher the following entries in Para 10. I took a photo of the whole entry and another of just one section in case this is clearer that way. Could it be that the part marked in red (something about a Military Wing and 24.08.43?) refers to BP? I can almost read GCHQ....
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You’ve attached an extract from the officers Form 199 - similar to other ranks B103 combined with the OR statement of services form.

    I can also make out G C H Q written on the record so your assumption about a Bletchley Park connection between those dates is likely accurate.

    Steve
     
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  11. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

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  12. Thank you, papiermache, I'm still at an early stage of sorting out the chronology of my father's service. I haven't found any references to the Nuremberg Trials on the forms I was sent. Can you see anything on the officers Form 199 I uploaded yesterday?
     
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  13. Hallo Steve, Thank you a lot for your help!
    The line in question on Form 199 says (I think) :"Tested Military Wing G C H Q (WE VIII/52b/1) and in the next column is (rather faint) some numbers 31.7.42. Is this the date of the test? The date in the column "Date" is 24.08.43.
    I'm a bit confused about all this. Was my father at No. 4 Intelligence School from 1.6.42 until 24 (EDIT) .8.43 when he was sent to Bletchley Park?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2023
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  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    I read your “Tested” as Posted.

    “Was my father at No. 4 Intelligence School from 1.6.42 until 14.8.43 when he was sent to Bletchley Park?” - From my reading that is correct - although it’s 24.8.43 (your typo noting 14.8.43).

    He went on Special Duties - not funded from Army Funds - 1.11.44 that was likely in relation to the preparation of the report used at the Nuremberg trials.

    The feint ‘31.7.42’ appears to be reference to a memo/instruction (Unit Part 2 Order?) that will have been most likely destroyed long ago - or may be in the papers still retained in his file by MOD.

    You may not be aware that MOD do not release all papers in a file but if they did it would make the task of compiling/interpreting a man’s military service history much easier 80 years after the event……


    Steve
     
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  15. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Di,

    I have rarely interpreted a service record: others are much better.
    The record you photographed seems to to me to read - ignoring the dates to the right -

    "Disembodied 31.8.45 EDIT= disembarked
    To be specially employed ( not remunerated from Army funds )
    Posted to S.C.D. Rotherham 15.1.46"

    Which I think means that he was re-embodied, i.e., the British Army decided to pay him again, as an Intelligence Corps officer. Not paid as part of the Judge Advocate General's department - everybody complained there were not enough lawyers to prosecute war crimes so lots of other people were borrowed.

    He was part of a team preparing for the Nuremberg Trial (singular) ( see Avalon project link above ):

    "The materials contained in Section 7 of Chapter XV on the General Staff and High Command were prepared on behalf of the American delegation by Col. Telford Taylor, Maj. Loftus Becker, Maj. Paul Neuland, Capt. Walter Rapp, Capt. Seymour Krieger, and Mr. Charles Kruszeawski; with the assistance of a British staff made jointly available to both the American and British delegations, consisting of W/Cdr. Peter Calvocoressi, RAFVR, Maj. Oliver Berthoud, IC, Lt. Michael Reade, RNVR, F/Lt. George Sayers, RAFVR, S/O Barbara Pinion, WAAF, W/O Mary Carter, WAAF, and Miss Elizabeth Stewart."

    I believe the above British staff were paid from the funds allocated to the Attorney General. See this Commons debate on the UK costs involved in preparing for and prosecuting the trial:
    LAW CHARGES (Hansard, 18 February 1947)

    I doubt whether he attended at any day of the trial. EDIT: He is seen on photographs of the trial !

    As for Nuremberg Trials, plural, these were prosecuted by Americans.

    If you father was an observer at these trials ( possibly to hear whether anybody gave evidence about code-breaking ? ) then the list of US Records at NARA below may be useful, since it gives dates of trials. Most of this material will be available online, either from NARA or US Universities or the Library of Congress.

    https://www.archives.gov/files/research/captured-german-records/microfilm/m1217.pdf


    "Records of United States Military Tribunals at Nuernberg
    Records of the Office of the United States Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, Nuernberg Military Tribunals, Relating to Nazi Industrialists, T301, 164 rolls;
    Records of the United States Nuernberg War Crimes Trials: NOKW Series, 1933-1947, 71119, 47 rolls;
    NG Series, 1933-1948, T1139, 70 rolls;
    NM Series, 1874-1946, M936, 1 roll;
    NP Series, 1934-1946, M942, 1 roll;
    WA Series, 1940-1945, M946, 1 roll;

    Records of the United States Nuernberg War Crimes Trials

    Interrogations, 1946-1949, M1019, 91 rolls; Records of the United States Nuernberg War Crimes Trials,

    United States of America v. Karl Brandt et al. (Case I), November 21, 1946-August 20, 1947, M887 (Medical Case), 46 rolls;

    Erhard Milch (Case II), November 13, 1946-April 17, 1947, (Milch Case—Luftwaffe) , 13 rolls;

    Josef Altstoetter et al. (Case III), February 17-December 4, 1947, M889 (Justice Case), 53 rolls;

    Oswald Pohl et al. (Case IV), January 13, 1947-August 11, 1948, M890'(Pohl Case--SS), 38 Rolls;

    Friedrich Flick ct al. (Case V), March 3-December 22, 1947, M891 (Flick Case—Industrialist), 42 rolls;

    Carl Krauch et al. (Case VI), August 14, 1947-July 20, 1948, M892 (I. G. Farben Case—Industrialist), 113 rolls;

    Wilhelm List et al. (Case VII), July 8, 1947- February 19, 1948, M893 (Hostage Case), 48 rolls;

    Ulrich Greifelt et al. (Case VIII), October 10, 1947- March 10, 1948, M894 (RuSHA Case--SS), 38 rolls;

    Otto Ohlendorf et al. (Case IX), September 15, 1947- April 10, 1948, M895 (Einsatzgruppen Case--SS), 38 rolls;

    Alfried Krupp et al. (Case X), August 16, 1947-July 31, 1948, M896 (Krupp Case--Industrialist), 69
    rolls;

    Ernest von Weizsaeeker et al. (Case XI), November 4, 1947-October 28, 1948, M897 (Ministries Case), 173 rolls;

    Wilhelm von Leeb et al. (Case XII), November 28, 1947- Ootober 28, 1948, M898 (High Command Case), 67 rolls.

    Excerpts from subsequent proceedings have been published as Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunal Under Control Council Law No. 10 (U.S. Government Printing Office, 1950-1953), 15 vols.

    Detailed published finding aids with computer-assisted indexes for the microfilmed records of the Ohlendorf Case (Special List 42) and the Milch Case (Special List 38) have also been published.

    The National Archives and Records Service holds motion pictures and photographs of many sessions of the 12 U.S. Nuernberg proceedings.

    Edward J. McCarter arranged the records for microfilming and wrote these introductory remarks."

    Good Hunting,

    John
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2023
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  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    papiermache

    Your “disembodied 31.8.45” I read as “disembarked” - presumably from overseas.

    The front page of the officers Form 199 usually notes dates of service overseas - like the entries on a OR Statement of Services form.

    Steve
     
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  17. Hallo Steve and John,
    Thanks to your help, I've found some more clues on another photocopy which shows Para 11. Oliver Berthoud spent 273 days in USA from 2.12.44 to 31.8.45 and 99 days in Germany from 17.10.45 to 23.1.46. The latter is surely in connection with the Tribunal at Nuremberg as he was an Observer there. I have definitely seen him on two photographs taken in the courtroom.
    Incldentally, in connection with my initial enquiry about medical boards, it is interesting to read that the finding of "B3" fitness in 1940 was followed by "A1" in 1941. Para 11 .JPG Para 11 close.JPG
     
  18. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Re improved fitness -

    In general terms a 29 year old manual worker might be “fitter” for military service on recruitment in 1940 than a 29 year old schoolteacher - subject to there being no underlying health issues.

    It’s not unusual so see an improved physical development in the early months of military service as the benefits physical exercise made a positive impact.

    Steve
     
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  19. Steve, you make a good point there. I expect that was the reason.
     
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  20. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the corrections: I have edited my post 15.

    The author listed below, who was listed alongside Major O.B. in the preface to the "Red Series" { Volume 1 } (see below ), wrote numerous books post war. This book might be the most useful, judging by the description given at the Imperial War Museum.

    ^"Threading My Way"
    Calvocoressi, Peter
    ISBN 10: 0715626272 / ISBN 13: 9780715626276
    Published by Gerald Duckworth & Co Ltd, 1994^

    { Westminster Public Libraries have a copy which could be available on inter library loan, otherwise it is a bit steep to buy second-hand.}

    The "Red Series" is in eleven volumes totalling about 320 MB to download, free, from the Library of Congress, and is a collection of documents relating to Nuremberg.

    Search results for Criminality Red Series, Available Online
     
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